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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=782225921-09032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Correct me if I'm wrong but systems 10 and 11 wouldn't be
applicable in his case as his vehicle bay is not of the type that is supposed to
be used in system 10/11. "<FONT size=2 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><FONT size=2
face=TimesNewRomanPSMT>Thermal zones designed with heating only systems in the
proposed design, serving storage rooms, stairwells, vestibules,
electrical/mechanical rooms, and restrooms not exhausting or transferring air
from mechanically cooled thermal zones in the proposed design shall use System
type 10 or 11 in the baseline building
design."</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=782225921-09032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=782225921-09032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>I've got a similar project that instead of vehicle bays I have
heavy truck maintenance bays/repair bays + office space for the Corp of
Engineers. They have determined that system types 10/11 can't be used as
they don't qualify due to room classifications.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=782225921-09032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=782225921-09032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Jeff - I think you might be stuck just like me trying to model
cooling in both baseline and proposed models.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=782225921-09032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=782225921-09032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=782225921-09032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=782225921-09032012><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Eric</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=782225921-09032012>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Eric Hethcoat, P.E.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Partner</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Latimer, Sommers & Associates,
P.A.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial>3639 SW Summerfield Dr., Suite
A</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Topeka, KS 66614</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial>c. 913.481.3256</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial>w. 785.233.3232</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial>f. 785.233.0647</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial><A
href="mailto:ehethcoat@lsapa.com">ehethcoat@lsapa.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
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<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Daniel
Knapp<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 09, 2012 3:24 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Jeff
Ross-Bain<BR><B>Cc:</B> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Equest-users] Modeling a non-existing cooling system<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Hi Jeff,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Look at ASHRAE 90.1-2010 systems 9 and 10 which are heating only.
They also show up in addenda dn, do, dp, dq, dr to 90.1-2007. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Best wishes,</DIV>
<DIV>Dan</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV apple-content-edited="true"><SPAN
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Verdana; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"
class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV>
<DIV>—</DIV>
<DIV>Daniel Knapp, PhD, LEED® AP O+M</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:danielk@arborus.ca">danielk@arborus.ca</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Arborus Consulting</DIV>
<DIV>Energy Strategies for the Built Environment</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.arborus.ca">www.arborus.ca</A></DIV>
<DIV>76 Chamberlain Avenue </DIV>
<DIV>Ottawa, ON, K1S 1V9 </DIV>
<DIV>Phone: (613) 234-7178 ext. 113</DIV>
<DIV>Fax: (613) 234-0740</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></SPAN><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 2012-03-09, at 2:59 PM, Jeff Ross-Bain wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Verdana; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"
class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV lang=EN-US vlink="purple" link="blue">
<DIV style="page: WordSection1" class=WordSection1>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hi
All,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">From
my understanding of ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Table G3.1 (10) and the User’s
Manual, if a space has no cooling system, and it is a conditioned space (i.e.
NOT semiheated), then that space must have a cooling system modeled and it
would be identical for the proposed and baseline cases. I completely
understand the logic of this requirement – in most
cases.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">However,
I am working on a fire station where the apparatus bay (the fire trucks) are
in a 4,000+ sq ft space that is heated only, but is a conditioned space and
not a semiheated space. This space is almost half of the building area, will
not be cooled, has large overhead doors that are mostly open, and is a place
where diesel engines run.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Does
anyone out there know of any exception, or interpretation, to this modeling
rule for specific cases such as a fire station where a space can be modeled as
heated only for the baseline and proposed cases? The model will be submitted
for LEED review. I can certainly model a cooling system but it does not seem
to make sense in this case.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Thanks
for your input and I really appreciate this forum.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Cheers!<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,110,120); FONT-SIZE: 8pt">Jeff
Ross-Bain, PE,<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,110,120); FONT-SIZE: 8pt">L</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,110,120); FONT-SIZE: 8pt">EED
AP BD+C</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(83,80,83); FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt"><BR>Principal<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(83,80,83); FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">404-220-8940
Office<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(83,80,83); FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">404-220-8955
Direct<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<P
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style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
href="http://www.rbgb.com/">www.rbgb.com</A></SPAN></B><SPAN
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style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,110,120); FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">Build
Green. Save
Time<B><O:P></O:P></B></SPAN></P></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Equest-users
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