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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Karen,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank you very much for the feedback. I personally don’t have the cross-platform experience necessary to share such perspective, and it is not my goal to pretend
that I do, just trying to keep our community’s mutual efforts to help each other constructive =).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As well as I can predict the weather, I see myself adding EnergyPlus to my toolbox sooner or later as well. UI issues and other items collectively affecting
the time-efficiency of EnergyPlus are what I see as the greatest hurdle for myself and others… more easily dismissed if you have the time to burn, but harder to do so where time is a scarcer resource.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In the meantime, myself and others are in the camp of needing to make do with the tools we are able to use with both accuracy and speed. I do not mean to argue
against learning new tools by sharing suggestions/means to approximate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks again for the input!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img width="119" height="37" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CCF85F.71FCB470" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900">SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">
</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Karen Walkerman [mailto:kwalkerman@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 02, 2012 8:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nathan Miller; CleanTech Analytics; John Aulbach; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Green Roof - eQuest style<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I used eQuest intensively for a time and recently moved most of my modeling to EnergyPlus. In addition to having more capabilities and being more flexible, EnergyPlus gets regular updates and bug fixes. EnergyPlus is also a total bear,
runs slowly compared to eQuest and doesn't have a fully functional user interface. I wouldn't recommend it to everybody.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">eQuest is very good at modeling buildings that use fairly normal constructions with fairly normal HVAC systems. I have run into problems when modeling water to water heat pumps, central ventilation systems (with heat recovery), high thermal
mass buildings, and dessicant wheels, to name a few. While I've run into problems with EnergyPlus, I've either been able to resolve the issue with help from the EnergyPlus helpdesk, or, when my issue illuminated an underlying problem with source code, a bug
fix was incorporated into the next version.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I understand that eQuest/DOE2 is not receiving funding for updates and bug fixes of eQuest. A few years ago I tried to start a conversation around updates, bug fixes and feature improvements, and also suggested that we in the modeling
community fund some of this effort. There were quite a bit of responses from users to the "modeling wishlist," but few if any responses to the funding idea.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To extend your carpentry analysis, I think that the eQuest community needs to face the fact that the eQuest saw just isn't capable of cutting some of the species of wood coming into the shop these days.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">--<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Karen<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Nick Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jeremiah,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">While dumping eQuest entirely and (re?)starting a project using different software may certainly
be a viable solution, I think it’s reasonable to assume someone posting a “how do I do this in eQuest” question in forum titled [Equest-users] is probably not looking for such answers first! I personally understand EnergyPlus is often the tool-of-choice for
green-roof specific research, but let’s avoid telling a carpenter to throw away his hand saw just because power tools exist ;).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">John,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">eQuest can certainly *approximate* green roofs, to varying degrees of accuracy. There were a couple
long, informative, and unfortunately disjointed conversations on this exact topic held over the [bldg-sim] list some time ago. I’m attaching those messages including various attachments and white papers here in a zip file – if you can move these into a folder
in outlook or similar you may find it easier to follow the flow of the conversation...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Read up on what’s been discussed so far, and I’m certain you’ll be able to decide for yourself how
comfortable you are using eQuest for your current project ;). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="119" height="37" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CCF85F.71FCB470" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900">SENIOR ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">25501 west valley parkway, suite 200</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">olathe, ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">direct
<a href="tel:913.344.0036" target="_blank">913.344.0036</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">fax
<a href="tel:913.345.0617" target="_blank">913.345.0617</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">
</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nathan Miller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 01, 2012 10:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'CleanTech Analytics'; 'John Aulbach'</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Green Roof - eQuest style<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I suppose there is probably some benefit to a green roof, but I’ve never tried to claim credit for
it. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">At least in Seattle’s damp climate, when you would most benefit from the additional insulation of
a green-roof-layer (winter) is the same time of the year the growth medium will be saturated, and likely provide you with the least insulative value. In the summer, when you would actually want the heat to escape, the medium will dry out (unless you are irrigating
it). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Soil has an insulative value of only around R-0.104/in (at least according to a table in the Seattle
Energy Code), so even ignoring moisture levels, it doesn’t seem like there is much benefit there.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I suppose in a heavy cooling climate the reflectivity of the plants might get you some benefit, as
well as the evaportative cooling effect if you are irrigating. Is that where the credit would be? Is there a thermal mass benefit?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:1.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">Nathan Miller, PE, LEED AP BD+C</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Mechanical Engineer/Senior Energy Analyst</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">O
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<a href="tel:206-788-4577" target="_blank">206-788-4577</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>CleanTech Analytics<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 01, 2012 7:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Aulbach<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Green Roof - eQuest style</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#336666">John,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#336666">I advise you to use a more modern software that has the ability to correctly simulate the effects of a Green Roof
rather then some wacky eQuest work around. Professor David Sailor of Portland State University developed the Green Roof object for Energy Plus that uses a a finite difference algorithm and works well. The problem with
</span>eQuest<span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#336666">/DOE2 is that it is based on a conduction transfer algorithm, and can not really emulate the effects of a Green Roof. If you need the easy to use inputs, I suggest Design Builder to
generate the Energy Plus file. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#336666">Best of luck, and feel free to ask if you need more about EP/DB..</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 6:04 AM, John Aulbach <<a href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jra_sac@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">OK, my fellow Raiders of the Lost BTU..<br>
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What would be your advice for developing a green roof in eQuest? I am sure some of you have gone through the USGBC with hopes of getting this approved.<br>
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I eagerly await your suggestions with thanks.<span style="color:#888888"><br>
<br>
John Aulbach<br>
Partner Energy</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#999999">Jeremiah D. Crossett</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#999999">CleanTech Analytics</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="http://www.cleantechanalytics.com" target="_blank"><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#999999">www.cleantechanalytics.com</span></i></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p align="center" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center"><i><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Droid Serif","serif";color:#CCCCCC;background:white">This document may contain valuable information proprietary to CleanTech Analytics
which is private and confidential. It may not be shared, copied, stored or transmitted in any form without the prior written consent of CleanTech Analytics</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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