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Michael-<br>
<br>
For zonal systems, I'd suggest reviewing the ZONE heating and
cooling SS-P reports as another way to see what is going on. I just
reviewed these reports for a current project, and found that I get
nearly the same results for both DOE-2 system types HP and PTAC
using these two fan control options:<br>
<ol>
<li>No outside air specified at SYSTEM or ZONE level, FAN-SCHEDULE
set to all 1's, and FAN-CONTROL = CYCLING</li>
<li>No outside air specified at SYSTEM or ZONE level, and as Robby
suggested, FAN-SCHEDULE set to all 0's and NIGHT-CYCLE-CONTROL =
CYCLE-ON-ANY<br>
</li>
</ol>
Attached is an xlsx summary for one zone using one of these
scenarios. As you can see, the system fans are not running 8760.
The report indicates 6010 run hrs. However, as indicated part-load
hour summary, the there are many values lower in the range,
indicating the system is only cycling on for a fraction of the
hour. The total annual effective full load hours is only 1166.<br>
<br>
A couple things to try:<br>
<ul>
<li>What DOE-2 system type are you using? A zonal system, such as
HP or PTAC? If you are using a single-zone system, such as PSZ
or PVVT, then FAN-CONTROL = CYCLING has no impact. If you only
want the system to cycle on to meet loads, you have to set
INDOOR-FAN-MODE = INTERMITTENT (CONSTANT is the DOE-2 default).</li>
<li>Do you specify outdoor air at the SYSTEM or ZONE level? If
you truly want no OA supplied by the system, I would default all
OA related keywords to "no_default"; a zero value may still be
recognized by the program as a value and hence, cause the system
to run 24/7. </li>
</ul>
<p>Also, related to the night-cycle control option, remember to
define a MIN-AIR-SCH with 0's during unoccupied hours. Otherwise,
when the system cycles on at night to meet the setback temp, the
OA dampers will remain open. This is a bit of a tradeoff, since
it also disables the economizer. But for heating dominated
climates, where cycling is most often to meet heating load, this
is typically the best way to go. Otherwise, if you are comparing
two designs (i.e. proposed and LEED basline), the design with
better envelope performance is more likely to not have as many
night cycle hours, and hence, use less energy heating (or possibly
cooling) ventilation air. This oversight can have a huge impact
on savings comparisons...<br>
</p>
Hope this helps,<br>
- David<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/1/2012 11:35 AM, Michael Mantai wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:CB4EFE4E.305AC%25mmantai@systemworcx.com"
type="cite">
<title>Re: [Equest-users] Fan Cycling Indication in Detailed
Report?</title>
<font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt">I tried this but it had no effect. My
annual kWh equals my total fan power times 8760, so I’m
certain that the fans are on continuously. There must be
something that is keeping them on, but I cannot find it.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/1/12 1:52 PM, "Robby Oylear" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="robbyoylear@gmail.com">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</span></font>
<blockquote><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt">Michael,<br>
<br>
On a recent project I modeled this same situation. The way
I was able to force the system to only operate during a call
for cooling or heating was by defining a fan schedule with
all hours set to 0. Per the DOE2.2 help documentation on
fan schedules:<br>
- </span></font><span style="font-size:11pt"><font
face="Symbol"> </font><font face="Calibri, Verdana,
Helvetica, Arial">If the value is 0, the fans are off but
may be turned on by NIGHT-CYCLE-CTRL if zone temperatures
warrant it. <br>
<br>
Make sure to allow night cycle control (cycle on any). This
basically defines all hours of the day to be "night" and the
fan will cycle on to meet the load in the space. <br>
<br>
Robby Oylear, </font></span><font face="Calibri, Verdana,
Helvetica, Arial"><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt">LEED
AP<br>
</span></font></font><font size="1"><font face="Verdana,
Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size:8pt"><i>Mechanical
Project Engineer<br>
Senior Energy Analyst<br>
<br>
</i></span></font><span style="font-size:8pt"><font
face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><b>D</b> </font><font
face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">206-788-4571<br>
</font><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><b><i><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rushingco.com">www.rushingco.com</a></i></b></font></span></font><font
face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.rushingco.com/">http://www.rushingco.com/</a>>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Chris Hadlock <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="cjhadlock@gmail.com">cjhadlock@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</span></font>
<blockquote><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt">Hi Michael,<br>
<br>
I would just run an hourly report for one of your heat
pump systems and pick up hourly flow rate and fan energy.
This way you can see how often your fans are running and
whether they are cycling or running continuously. With
heat pump systems, there are key words under the Fans tab
(for a given system) that will indicate the control on the
fans. One is night cycle control and the other is indoor
fan mode (within the Flow Parameters tab). If your fans
are not cycling, it is likely due to those two key words
(or the fan schedule you have specified).<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Chris<br>
</font><br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Michael Mantai <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mmantai@systemworcx.com">mmantai@systemworcx.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</span></font>
<blockquote><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size:11pt">I'm modeling a 6-story hotel.
Baseline is PTAC. I set up the baseline to<br>
have outside air at each PTAC with the fans running
continuously. The<br>
Proposed Case is watersource heat pumps. Outside air is
through dedicated<br>
units at the corridors. I've set (at least I am trying
to set) the heat<br>
pump fans to cycle on the thermostat. I've set the heat
pumps to 0 CFM<br>
outside air. When I run the two models, the ventilation
fan energy is<br>
nearly identical. I expected to see some fan energy
savings with the heat<br>
pump fans cycling. When I look at the detailed output
report, the SS-C for<br>
the heat pumps seems like it is showing fans running
continuously. I say<br>
this because the "hours floating" are less than the
"hours fans on", and the<br>
"hours fans cycle on" is zero. This implies to me that
the fans are running<br>
continuously. However, when I look at the reports that
show fan energy<br>
consumption, the months with floating hours show
significantly reduced fan<br>
energy, which to me implies that they are cycling. The
total fan kW in the<br>
proposed model is about twice that of the baseline, so
from that standpoint<br>
maybe the kWh being about the same is correct. I set up
the PTAC units at<br>
.3 watts/CFM per ASHRAE. I set up the heat pumps fans
with a static<br>
pressure input from the design drawings rather than
input the fan motor<br>
sizes (used .2" w.g. Static).<br>
<br>
Also, my space cooling energy is higher in the proposed
case than the<br>
baseline, even though the envelope is better, the
watersource heat pumps<br>
have a lower EIR and the design lighting power density
is 30% lower. I<br>
haven't dug into that yet because I'm still trying to
verify my fan cycling<br>
is working.<br>
<br>
My questions are, can anyone explain how to interpret
the SS-C reports in<br>
terms of fan cycling, or point me to which report I
should look to really<br>
verify the fans are cycling? And anyone modeled a
similar comparison, and<br>
if so, what type of results did you get with respect to
cooling energy and<br>
fan power consumption? Seems like I should be seeing
savings.<br>
<br>
<br>
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