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<font style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><b>From</b>: Michael Wilson [mailto:mwilson@enerficiency.ca]
<br>
<b>Sent</b>: Saturday, January 14, 2012 01:00 AM<br>
<b>To</b>: equest-users@onebuilding.org <equest-users@onebuilding.org> <br>
<b>Subject</b>: Re: [Equest-users] Help - Modeling VRV-VRF System with eQuest <br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Last summer I did a VRF model for an office building. I used a 4 pipe fan coil served by a loop-to-loop heat pump. For the condenser loop I used a Lake loop, which in turn was
connected to a ground heat exchanger. Then I specified the ground temps as equivalent to the outdoor air temps (8760 hour schedule). Although this sounds complicated, it worked fairly well and has some benefits. The loop-to-loop HP allows heat to be transferred
between zones. While the condenser loop with outdoor air temps allows the heat pump to act like an air cooled heat pump when in that mode. The trickiest part was developing equipment curves, but that would be the case no matter which way you model it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Michael Wilson, P.Eng.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">PO Box 1911 - 458 Abbs Rd.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Gibsons, BC V0N 1V0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">604-886-9864<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">www.enerficiency.ca<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Paul Diglio [mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> January-12-12 1:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Neil Bulger; Loi Ng; equest-users@onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Help - Modeling VRV-VRF System with eQuest<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Neil:<br>
<br>
I have modeled VRF systems as PTHP systems for high rise residential buildings where the required baseline system is a PTHP.<br>
<br>
The compressor on the PTHP can be specified as variable speed. so it seems to work well. I just finished a 7 story building using a Daikin system. I built 4 custom curves per condensing unit and used the exceptional calculation method outlined in the BSUG
slide presentation to calculate the recovered energy. The curves I created are the Cooling Capacity f(EWB,ODB), Cooling EIR f(EWB,ODB), Heating Capacity f(EDB, ODB) and Heating EIR f(EDB, ODB).
<br>
<br>
I ended up with a 28% cost savings for the proposed HVAC system compared to the baseline 90.1-2004 system which is in the range claimed by the manufacturer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Paul Diglio, CEM, CBCP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">87 Fairmont Avenue<br>
New Haven, CT 06513<br>
203-415-0082<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="http://www.pdigliollc.com" target="_blank">www.pdigliollc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Neil Bulger <nbulger@integralgroup.com><br>
<b>To:</b> Loi Ng <Lng@DIVENG.COM>; "equest-users@onebuilding.org" <equest-users@onebuilding.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thu, January 12, 2012 4:21:19 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Help - Modeling VRV-VRF System with eQuest</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Loi,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I have run across this as well with trying to model VRV in eQuest. PVVT is a difficult system to work with because it requires specifying 1 zone as the thermostat that drives the whole system. Therefore, 1 zone
will drive what supply air temperature the central AHU delivers to each zone. This can make hours out of range on cooling difficult but, if heating is the issue you may have more flexibility with zone-level heating options (reheat or baseboards). However,
that can start to look strange when in reality, these features do not exist. But, the hours out of range typically stem from this single-zone-thermostat issue with PVVT.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Another approach I have not perfected yet that I thought of was to try using the eQuest Water Heat Pump system. The Water Heat Pump ties to a WLHP water-loop (it appears yellow in the Water-Side tab). If you
were to place a dry-cooling tower on this loop, effectively, the dry cooling tower would be (in my mind) the same as an air-source condenser, like we would see in reality with a VRV system (typically).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">This may be good or bad on the airside in eQuest (I am hoping good) in that it provides another set of options and heat flow control at each system. Again, I have not dug into how this would go together best
and I would imagine some post processing would be needed to understand the results.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Would love to hear any other creative ideas out there for VRV work-arounds.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:gray">Neil Bulger</span></b><span style="color:gray"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:gray">Project Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#99CC00">________________________________</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#999999">I N T E G R A L</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#999999">
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:gray"> </span></b><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:gray">GROUP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#999999"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:gray">427 13th Street, Oakland CA 94612</span><span style="color:gray"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:gray">510 663 2070 x 235<br>
</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:nbulger@integralgroup.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:8.5pt">nbulger@integralgroup.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:gray"><br>
</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.integralgroup.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:8.5pt">www.integralgroup.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#99CC00">DEEP GREEN Engineering.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#99CC00">________________________________</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Loi Ng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 12, 2012 9:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Help - Modeling VRV-VRF System with eQuest</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am modeling VRV system based on a “Energy Trust of Oregon, Inc.” guidance document (attached) posted by Mathew Larson of Colorado dated 12/12/2011. The document recommends using a PVVT system to simulate a VRV system. I used an air
cooled PVVT system to model a VRV system. However, the unmet hours on the heating is very high. The cooling part is okay. Does anyone has experience on bringing down the unmet hours?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks! <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Bradley Hand ITC","serif"">Loi Ng</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Mechanical Engineer</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">,
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt">LEED<sup>®</sup> AP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#0070C0">Diversified Engineering, Inc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#0070C0">914 Silver Spring Avenue, Suite 208</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#0070C0">Silver Spring, MD 20190</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#0070C0">Tel: 301-565-2000 x 234</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#0070C0">Fax 301-495-1563
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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