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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Travis,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>If nothing else you can model it as a regular chiller with an open cooling tower and just use KW/efficiency factors & curves for the various components so that it equals what you would get from energy used by your well pumps or what have you. Also, using temperatures that relate to your well water temperatures for the chilled water temperatures. I did this once, modeling an existing large office building that was cooled by well water, that varied from 50 degrees F. in winter to 60 degrees F. in the late summer. Once I got all the inputs and curves and all set up correctly then it modeled very closely to what the actual energy use had been from all of our historical recorded data.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><font size=6 color=blue face="Bradley Hand ITC"><span style='font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Bradley Hand ITC";color:blue;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>David A. Bastow </span></font></i></b><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face="Rockwell Extra Bold"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Rockwell Extra Bold","serif";color:#1F497D;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>McClure Engineering, Inc. </span></font></i></b><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=red face=Batang><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Batang","serif";color:red'>507 Main Avenue West</span></font><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=red face=Batang><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Batang","serif";color:red'>Post Office Box 1404</span></font><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=red face=Batang><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Batang","serif";color:red'>Twin Falls, Idaho 83303-1404</span></font><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=red face=Batang><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Batang","serif";color:red'>PH. (208) 734-9015</span></font><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=red face=Batang><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Batang","serif";color:red'>FAX (208) 734-9016</span></font><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=red face=Batang><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Batang","serif";color:red'>Cell (208) 308-1152</span></font><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Batang><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Batang","serif";color:#1F497D'>E-Mail: </span></font><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:dbastow@mcclure-engineering.com" title="mailto:dbastow@mcclure-engineering.com"><font size=2 face=Batang><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Batang","serif"'>dbastow@mcclure-engineering.com</span></font></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Web Site: </span></font><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face=Batang><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Batang","serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.mcclure-engineering.com/" title="http://www.mcclure-engineering.com/"><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.mcclure-engineering.com</span></font></a></span></font><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Travis Miller [mailto:tmiller@dcengineering.net] <br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:28 AM<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Dahlstrom, Aaron; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users] Ground Water/chilled water loop error(s)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks Aaron – I did that and now the error reads:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=619 height=205 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01CC8DAB.91B87250" alt="Description: C:\Users\tmiller\Desktop\Capture1.PNG"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>So I went and gave the chilled water loop the same process load, but that did not fix the problem. Below is a screenshot on how the loops are tied together. Ignore the heat pump loop – that is for a different system in the same building. Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=466 height=675 id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.png@01CC8DAB.91B87250" alt="Description: C:\Users\tmiller\Desktop\Capture.PNG"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Dahlstrom, Aaron [mailto:ADahlstrom@in-posse.com] <br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, October 17, 2011 5:18 PM<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Travis Miller; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Ground Water/chilled water loop error(s)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Travis – sometimes this error can be addressed by putting a nominal process load on the offending loop – say 0.000001 Mbtu/hr, with a minimal schedule.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>There may be a more comprehensive or elegant solution, but this might just get you going.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>AD<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:150%;text-autospace:none'><b><font size=1 color=gray face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:gray;font-weight:bold'>Aaron Dahlstrom , PE, LEEDŽ AP</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:150%;text-autospace:none'><b><font size=2 color="#17365d" face="AvantGarde Bk BT"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:#17365D;font-weight:bold'>In P</span></font></b><b><font color="#619428" face="AvantGarde Bk BT"><span style='font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:#619428;font-weight:bold'>o</span></font></b><b><font color="#17365d" face="AvantGarde Bk BT"><span style='font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:#17365D;font-weight:bold'>sse</span></font></b><font size=1 color=gray face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:gray'> – </span></font><font size=1 color=gray face=Verdana><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:gray'>A subsidiary of</span></font><font size=1 color=gray face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:gray'> </span></font><b><font size=1 color="#cc0000" face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#CC0000;font-weight:bold'>AKF</span></font></b><font size=1 color=gray face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:gray'>| 1500 Walnut Street, Suite 1414, Philadelphia, PA 19102 </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:150%;text-autospace:none'><font size=1 color=gray face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:gray'>d: 215-282-6753| m: 267-507-5470| In Posse: 215-282-6800| AKF: 215-735-7290</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=1 color=gray face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:gray'>e: <a href="mailto:ADahlstrom@in-posse.com">ADahlstrom@in-posse.com</a> | in posse web: <a href="http://www.in-posse.com/">www.in-posse.com</a> | akf web: <a href="http://www.akfgroup.com/">www.akfgroup.com</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=1 color=gray face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:gray'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><font size=1 color=gray face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:gray'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=gray face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:gray'> </span></font><font size=3><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Travis Miller<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, October 17, 2011 5:45 PM<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Equest-users] Ground Water/chilled water loop error(s)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Hello all:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I have a system that is using well water direct to the cooling coils (no heat exchanger to protect the cooling coils) at multiple air handlers in the building. I set it up with the condenser water loop tied to a ground water heat exchanger. This condenser loop then is tied to another heat exchanger on the chilled water loop to the coils. This approach has given me an error on the condenser water loop that it has no design flow. I have been playing with the primary/secondary loop designations, even putting some made up flow values into the loops/pumps etc. but have had no luck. Any ideas?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I would like to eliminate heat exchangers all together and just model the 50° well water directly into the chilled water loop – any advice on how to do this? I already changed the effectiveness of the heat exchanger to 1.0. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Travis Miller</span></font></i></b><b><i><font size=2 face="Lucida Sans"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>, PE</span></font></i></b><b><i><font face="Lucida Sans"><span style='font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#9a600a" face=Impact><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";color:#9A600A'>DC Engineering</span></font><font size=3 color="#9a600a" face=Impact><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";color:#9A600A'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face="Lucida Sans"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif"'>123 W. Spruce St.</span></font><font face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face="Lucida Sans"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif"'>Missoula, MT 59802</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face="Lucida Sans"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif"'>P: (406)829-8828x209</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face="Lucida Sans"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif"'>F: (406)829-8829</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br clear=all>This e-mail may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, do not duplicate or redistribute it by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received it in error. Unintended recipients are prohibited from taking action on the basis of information in this e-mail. E-mail messages may contain computer viruses or other defects, may not be accurately replicated on other systems, or may be intercepted, deleted or interfered without the knowledge of the sender or the intended recipient. If you are not comfortable with the risks associated with e-mail messages, you may decide not to use e-mail to communicate with In Posse. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></body></html>