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<font size="+1">The possibility I was considering as well but a
couple of minor adjustments. Set tracking to No, Control to
cycling, to allow on/off, The key is the source, you want the
exhaust to operate independent of the air handler. Infiltration or
balanced infiltration will do this. Set up an annual schedule,
type on/off, hourly week schedule and hourly report day schedule.
In the hourly report day schedule put a 1 in for the hours a truck
will be in the building and you are running the exhaust. Define
the exhaust annual schedule in the air side HVAC tab under fans.
Down at the bottom you will see exhaust.<br>
I tested this on a model I had and you can see the jump in the
heating and cooling for the hour(s) you have the exhaust on in the
SS-J report. I didn't do any other checking though on the fan
power energy and where it went.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
</font><br>
On 28/09/2011 08:55 AM, Eric O'Neill wrote:
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09">Jacob,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09">I’ve
got a fourth possibility to consider. I think you can
accomplish something similar to what you need in “Air-Side
HVAC Zone Parameters” for the zone(s) you’re working on. In
the outdoor air tab, specify an exhaust tracking control
method and the exhaust schedule to match when the trucks are
in the building. Everything else you’ve described can be
filled in there. It doesn’t sound like an exact match - I
believe this will increase the OA through the main RTUs
(shouldn’t change the fan volumes, and just models the
conditioning in the main unit rather than the makeup unit),
rather than through separate units. Check your hourly
reports, but it might be close enough.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09"><img
id="Picture_x0020_5"
src="cid:part1.07050303.00040205@bellnet.ca" height="500"
width="741"></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09">Good
luck!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09">Eric
O'Neill <br>
</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09">608.785.3328
| </span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#018942">MICHAELS
ENERGY</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#563B09"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Nick Caton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 27, 2011 5:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> jacob goodman;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Two separate outside
air streams for a zone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi
Jacob,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My
intuition would be something like your 2<sup>nd</sup>
suggestion… Split the space geometrically in 2 to get two
spaces/zones. Set the thermal connection between them as an
air wall.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Define
your RTU for one zone. Define your OA vent fans for the
other. Separate scheduling for concurrent/non-concurrent
runtimes as appropriate. Consider your model now has two
thermostats for two systems, which may or may not match
reality. In any case – make sure both systems’ fan/tstat
schedules are defined in relation to each other. If you go
all out and also model the additional internal loads of a
bunch of tons of blazing hot metal entering in the
summertime, you may expect to encounter a certain “normal”
amountNote that some unmet hours may be normal <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Your
3<sup>rd</sup> approach seems viable on the surface though…
is your supply fan “all or nothing” (constant volume fan
control)? I think you may need to swap to something like
VSD or maybe explore the PTAC “two-speed” option to get your
“staged” flow work, from your description. I’d continue
reviewing the hourly results until you can find the golden
combination of tweaks that make it happen ;).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img
id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part2.06010505.04070504@bellnet.ca"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" height="37"
width="119"></span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus
BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus
BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-family:"Stylus
BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">NICK
CATON, P.E.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900">SENIOR
ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">Smith
& Boucher Engineers</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">25501
west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">olathe,
ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">direct
913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">fax
913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">
</span></u><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>jacob goodman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 27, 2011 4:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Two separate outside air
streams for a zone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Dear All,<br>
I searched the archives to answer this question and didn't see
anything, but may have missed something. I am trying to model
(for LEED 2009) a warehouse that trucks occasionally drive
into. The space has the usual ventilation air prescribed for a
warehouse by 62.1 supplied by RTU's. Additionally, there are
fans that turn on (3.73 kW for 16,000 cfm of outside air) when
trucks are present. I created a schedule for "trucks present"
using fraction type at 1.2 hours per day each weekday. I'm not
sure how to add the outside air or get the extra fans to only
run during those hours. <br>
<br>
Possible solutions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->fans
as separate "equipment load" in the zone, on the schedule and
add outside air to the standard ventilation air as a fraction
of 16,000 cfm. So new vent = std vent + [(1.2/40)*16,000].
This wouldn't give the same peak load as having a full 16,000
cfm though. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->create
dummy zone with no loads, walls, area, etc. and give that zone
and system the 16,000 cfm and 3.73 kW on the truck schedule.
Tried this and only got a runtime error with no explination. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->change
the max OA to std vent + 16,000cfm and change the Min OA
schedule to reflect truck presence (run OA at 7.25% for all
hours 1.2 truck hours per day). Also, changed supply flow to
system supply=9,000 + 16,000. Tried this, but the supply flow
shown in hourly output reports was always 25,000!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Any suggestions?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><br>
<b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Jacob
Goodman </span></b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#666666">,
LEED AP, Green Building Specialist </span><br>
<span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#666666">v:509.280.7051 i:<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.lseng.com"><span
style="color:#666666">www.lseng.com</span></a></span><br>
<b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#6D928C">L&S
<span style="letter-spacing:1.0pt"> Engineering
Associates, Inc. </span></span></b><br>
<span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#666666">'High
Performance Design'</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
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