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<font size="+1"> Nuances of modelling. I agree with you Nick on
your conclusions. I didn't mean that I actually apply all the
plenum load to the space</font> <font size="+1">but keep this
information grouped so it is front and centre and moved to
appropriate spaces as I fine tune my design, deal with the type of
return(s) and lighting loads. I also track OA like this as well.
I also had ducted returns and multistory building pop into my head
later to further complicate my thoughts on this matter. Then also
too, dealing with old software versions and a certain amount of
acquired distrust, I may not be as "old as dirt" as in another
fine modellers resume, but I have been around the block a few
times.<br>
With one air handler per floor on a multistory building with a
plenum return everything is pretty simple for the thermodynamics.
The occupants might not be to pleased but on average the system
works. Today's reality is not even close to this and many methods
are used to keep every occupant's spot the perfect temperature
with the proper amount of fresh air. My main point was not to
forget the plenum next to the roof, the roof load imposed on it
and how you are going to deal with it when you move away from a
plain system. It is a significant load which could possibly be
forgotten about in a complex system. As you and Jonathan have
nicely shown eQuest deals with it well but in a cloaked fashion.<br>
On the always learning, I just discovered 3.64 now accounts
for insulated return ducts, to second the reading of the help
files on occasion.<br>
This discussion has just scratched all the variables and
implications of just a return flow to an AHU. eQuest being openly
available for everyone to use and being an excellent modelling
program, it can make things seem too easy. Put in some data,
press the button and you are a building designer or modeller. I
was consulting on a new car dealership and my customer took me to
one they had finished a year or 2 earlier. Everyone knows the
layout, a 2 story glass box attached to a building facing south.
He wanted a quick heat loss done by hand on piece of paper and no
modelling, "just like they always did it". It was a beautiful
sunny fall day, we were in short sleeves, and he was chatting
about how great the building was and how simple the engineering
should be (cheap) to re-size the new system. The first thing we
saw inside was the salesman sitting there in his <u>winter</u>
coat in the sunshine. These are complex systems and so is the
modelling software. I just looked at my detailed sim file I was
referring to on this issue, 1,509 pages of data. It is not quite
as simple as it seems and it pays to run a spreadsheet alongside
the model to keep track and organize everything. They are great
for troubleshooting too.<br>
Bruce<br>
</font><br>
On 08/09/2011 04:47 PM, Jonathan Smith wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:83947E42E5876742A9EEC59725608A1303B06F22@csa8"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">eQuesters:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I ran an hourly
report comparing zone temperatures for a plenum and adjacent
zone. Temperature delta for the plenum was on average 4
degrees less in winter than the occupied zone. I could not
identify a System or Zone hourly report variable to track
heat flux of interior surfaces. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Looking at the
DOE 2.1 Engineering Manual there is an explanation of the
calculation procedure whereby the LOADS program temperatures
are adjusted in the SYSTEMS program to account for a delta
between adjacent zones. This adjusted load impacts the
system sizing when the user selects “ADJUST-LOADS”. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">IV.25-26,
Calculation Outline, A. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">IV.174-185,
Interface between LOADS and SYSTEMS (Subroutine TEMDEV)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><img
id="Picture_x0020_7"
src="cid:part1.08060708.06000004@bellnet.ca" height="554"
width="687"></span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Nick Caton [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 08, 2011 3:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bruce Easterbrook; Jeremy Poling<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>; Jonathan
Smith<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Roof vs Exterior Wall
Load<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hey everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Sorry to chime
in late… but I have some input to wedge into the
conversation as it’s wrapping up:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">First: As has
already been said, LS-F is inclusive of all ‘<i>conditioned</i>’
spaces. I didn’t realize the DOE2 entries explicitly (more
or less) say that, and had figured it out for myself via
logic/gray hair growth… =) I’ll take this as a reminder
that the DOE2 help files are perpetually more useful than
they may seem!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Second: I’m
also no developer, but Bruce’s conclusions didn’t sit well
with me so I did a quick study to confirm… I don’t think you
can characterize plenum loads as being *entirely* separated
from the conditioned spaces... Do such loads (really
hot/cold plenums) get directed straight back to the central
air handler, or do they also partially interact with the
zones as well? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I know ceilings
generated by eQuest wizards by default are not adiabatic,
but do use a construction with defined heat transmittance
properties.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I slapped
together a 1-zone, 1-floor dummy model and tried changing
the default ceiling construction (U~0.5) to adiabatic in a
parametric run. Return air path was set to “plenum zones.”
The plenum zone itself was changed from “unconditioned” to
“plenum:” <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><img
id="Picture_x0020_11"
src="cid:part2.02010705.02000907@bellnet.ca" height="560"
width="980"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Lo and behold:
The two runs do indeed have differing
cooling/heating/ventilation consumptions (attached)!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">Investigation of the LS-F reports
shows the whole building deals with identical load
components altogether – which is expected. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">Comparing of the LS-E reports reveals
the plenum with an adiabatic ceiling has less heating and
less cooling to deal with over the year. Both runs’
conditioned space however deal with identical loads for each
month.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Conclusions! <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">Bruce is NOT to be questioned: Plenums
modeled as a return air path do not transmit their loads to
the corresponding spaces below. They carry their loads
directly to the parent system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">Return air plenums DO however receive
heating/cooling loads transmitted from the conditioned
spaces below via the ceiling surfaces. It’s basically a
1-way street.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">I’d agree real-world behavior is
somewhere in-between: Return-air plenum ceilings should act
as a 2-way street thermally, and a single plenum can be hot
on one side but cold on another at any given instance. In
many cases however, I suspect the assumption of all loads
staying in the plenum is closer to reality than assuming
they all dump into the corresponding space below, from an
supply airflow-sizing perspective.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><img
id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part3.07020000.06060102@bellnet.ca"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" height="37"
width="119"></span><b><span
style="font-family:"Stylus
BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Stylus
BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Stylus
BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">NICK
CATON, P.E.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900">SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">Smith & Boucher
Engineers</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:#CC9900"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">25501 west valley
parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:blue"> </span></u><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Bruce Easterbrook<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 08, 2011 12:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeremy Poling<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>; Jonathan
Smith<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Roof vs Exterior Wall
Load<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Thanks
Jeremy,<br>
I went back and reviewed my spaces and removed the plenums
from my tally. The LS-E and the LS-F now agree. The
information in the reports summary also had zeros for the
roof components but a note indicated that only 6 of the
reports were shown and these were from the ground floor of a
3 story building, so spaces with roof components weren't
shown. So the plenums are not included in the reports. The
bigger question now is is the plenum load properly accounted
for in the eQuest simulation. I believe you are correct on
the way eQuest accounts for the heat gains/losses. This
lumps all the various zone plenums onto the AHU system as
one value. In the cobwebs I think this is why I don't use
this report. I prefer to keep all the loads in the zone and
so I add in the plenums. This way later when I'm changing
my zoning I don't forget what can many times be a
significant load on the AHU. It also makes checking
easier. In reality with firewalls, ducted returns, this is
not the way an actual system deals with the plenum loads.
The heat or cold can actually penetrate the room space and
possibly throw off the ability of the supply air flow to
deal with this extra load. So definitely a caution to think
about when fine tuning a building system in the model and
when actually designing the HVAC system. The load is
accounted for but maybe not in the way you expected and can
easily be forgotten about as we just proved! lol.<br>
Bruce<br>
</span><br>
On 08/09/2011 11:49 AM, Jeremy Poling wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">For what it’s
worth, the example LS-F report in the help file
documentation also shows only 0’s in the roof component.
From within eQuest, go to the Help menu, select DOE-2 Help.
Expand the “Volume 4: Libraries & Reports” and then the
“Reports” topics. LS-E and LS-F are under the loads
reports. The text says the monthly space components are
summed across spaces. The definition of the LS-F report
excludes plenum spaces:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">This report gives a breakdown of
loads on a monthly basis for the entire building, according
to the source of the load. The loads in unconditioned spaces
(ZONE-TYPE = UNCONDITIONED or PLENUM) are not included; all
entries are in millions of Btu/month.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">This just
explains why they don’t show up in the LS-F…I believe that
the mechanism used by eQuest to account for heat gain in the
plenums is to apply that heat gain to the return air before
the system, thereby increasing temperature, humidity, etc.
in the RA stream due to the loads in the plenum spaces
connected to a given system. Someone from Hirsch can jump
in if I got that wrong.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I’m curious if
anyone else has dug deeper on this than I have, though?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jeremy
R. Poling, PE, LEED AP+BDC</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bruce Easterbrook<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 08, 2011 10:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jonathan Smith<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Roof vs Exterior Wall
Load</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> To tell the truth I haven't a clue.
You would think the sums would agree. I did open one of my
sim's and summed the roof components for all my zones from the
LS-E report and found the sum didn't match the figure in the
LS-F report, it was much higher. I rarely use these reports
and hadn't noticed this before. eQuest does treat roofs as
horizontal walls but on my sim I know I didn't do any
modifications which might have mixed things up. I took a look
at the "Detailed Simulation Reports Summary" and there was
nothing which stood out as an explanation. So the quickest
thing to do is pass this back to the group to see if we can
find an answer.<br>
Bruce<br>
<br>
On 08/09/2011 09:33 AM, Jonathan Smith wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Bruce:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks you for
your reply. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The LS-F report
I’m reviewing is a building wide report which should be
inclusive of all spaces. As stated previously, MBTUs through
ROOF components is listed as zero. However, the space level
report (LS-E) for the one of the plenums with a roof
component shows heat loss of the roof component. This is
true for some of the other plenum spaces. Any ideas why the
space level report (LS-E) ROOF components are not reported
on the building wide report (LS-F) as roof components?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Jonathan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Bruce Easterbrook [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca">mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 07, 2011 9:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jonathan Smith<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Roof vs Exterior Wall
Load</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">In the room
space the roof is actually the ceiling. Because the room
and plenum spaces are close or the same temperature there is
minimal or no heat loss between them. You need to go to the
plenum space for the heat loss through the exterior roof.
If you want the heat loss for the full floor to floor space
you have to add the room and plenum losses. The plenum will
have some wall surfaces as well.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
</span><br>
On 06/09/2011 01:46 PM, Jonathan Smith wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">RE: Detailed Report, LS-F Building Monthly
Load Components <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Why would roof heat losses be zero in a
model defined with plenum spaces that have roofs components?
In report LS-F, there are no losses reported in ‘Roof’ and
‘Wall’ heat losses seem exceptionally high, as if ‘Roof’
losses are reported in ‘Walls’. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">All spaces were created using the eQuest
wizard mode. Inspecting the “exterior surface properties”, the
word “Roof” appears below the surface name. All roof
constructions are made with layers input, having a U-Value 0f
0.043. When creating exterior surfaces in detailed edit mode,
no option exists for defining an exterior surface as a roof or
wall. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, how are the loads associated with roofs
reporting in LS-F? What other reasons might roof loads not
report, or at least not report in the correct load component?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Jonathan
R. Smith AIA LEED</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt">®</span><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">AP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><img
id="_x0000_i1027"
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alt="signature-logo_60%" height="66" border="0"
width="300"></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">40
Beaver Street</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Albany,
New York 12207</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">p:
518.463.8068 x268<br>
f: 518.463.8069 <br>
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.csarchpc.com/"
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">www.csarchpc.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
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