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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>A generic reminder: The mailing list archives are a resource every modeler should bookmark and utilize – many times the unique questions that come up as you’re learning have already been asked and answered! You can find the links for the bldg-sim and equest-users search pages, among other useful tidbits, here: <a href="http://onebuilding.org/wiki/doku.php">http://onebuilding.org/wiki/doku.php</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>“Sandwiched” roof surfaces between two shells WILL interact with the exterior conditions. If you have multiple shells with partially exposed roofs coming from the wizards, you can handle the situation many ways within detailed mode. Here are a few suggestions for varying effort/accuracy: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Low effort: Delete all roof surfaces which are fully “sandwiched” by the two shells<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Moderate effort: Delete roof surfaces which are fully “sandwiched” by the two shells, then modify those which are partially covered to be an appropriate surface area.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Medium-High effort: Do the above, but also move/reshape the modified surfaces to ensure they receive direct solar loads but are shaded by other parts of the model as appropriate. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>“I have no time to waste on accuracy”: Approximate the building as one multi-story shell using an identical averaged footprint for each floor.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The first option is what I’d call “good enough” for many cases. The model creator gets to make the ultimate judgement regarding what’s appropriate however when it comes to accuracy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>That last option is generally appropriate when you need a quick estimate/answer, but not what I’d personally call a “finished product” outside of specific cases in SD-level modeling.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Your “validation” investigation is something I’d encourage and often do myself when I want to get a question answered – sometimes the best/quickest way to figure something out is to construct and run a test/experiment. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>That said, I think you may be misled a bit: True – there are no ceilings generated for multistory plenums by the wizards… Where that might lead you to believe heat transfer isn’t being modeled between floors (a fair assumption for many multistory buildings, btw), “one man’s floor is another man’s plenum ceiling.” Note the floors for 2<sup>nd</sup>+ story spaces are interior surfaces thermally tied to the corresponding plenum below ;).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Armed with that bit of knowledge:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Highest effort: Do the above steps, then also create/modify the 2<sup>nd</sup>+ story floor surfaces as standard interior surfaces with associations (thermal ties) to the appropriate ceiling plenums below, just as the wizards do for a multi-story shell.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC6EFB.5154CB60" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Yuvaraj Saravanan<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 09, 2011 12:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Roof for multi-story building<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I have a two story building. The second floor has a smaller foot-print than the first floor. I placed the second floor immediately above the first floor in the wizard. What I am noticing is, for the first floor, equest is creating an exterior roof for the entire 1<sup>st</sup> floor foot-print although areas where portions of the first floor covered by second floor will not have an exterior roof. For the 1<sup>st</sup> floor, will e-quest calculate the heat-loss/gain for the entire area of the roof or will it know that there is a floor above and will discount for the area of the second floor. If not, how do you deal with this. FYI: I don’t have identical zone for the first and second floor.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>One other thing I did is, I tried to validate it by creating two story building by using shell multiplier in wizard and noticed equest is not creating an exterior roof for the 1<sup>st</sup> floor.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Yuvaraj<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>____________________________________________________________<br>Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business<br>systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>