Thanks Patrick<div>I read the following link which talks abt sizing evaporative coolers</div><div><a href="http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/home/heating_cooling/evaporative.html">http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/home/heating_cooling/evaporative.html</a><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Nick Caton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Patrick, thanks for the heads up!<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">My experience applying evap. coolers has been on a limited basis explicitly for space comfort, operated staged & cycled off via thermostat, so my brainstorming for Deepika was tailored to my past experience. In those cases (auto garages), a mechanical ventilation system was provided as an entirely separate system, so the 62.1/IMC requirements for ventilation during occupancy were addressed elsewhere.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">If one is in fact using a swamp cooler functionally to supply required ventilation air, then I would agree it makes complete sense to operate continuously during occupied hours. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I recall evap. coolers being a breath of fresh air (har har) to design around as they do make you rethink how you use your psych charts =). I’ll defer any specific swamp cooler application queries to the Arizona engineer below me though – we don’t use them quite so often locally, outside of the desert ;).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div class="im"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">~Nick<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><img width="119" height="37" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC5CBB.C8A46B00" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#2D4D5E">NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><b><span style="color:#2D4D5E"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900">SENIOR ENGINEER<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">olathe, ks 66061<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">direct <a href="tel:913.344.0036" value="+19133440036" target="_blank">913.344.0036</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">fax <a href="tel:913.345.0617" value="+19133450617" target="_blank">913.345.0617</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:blue"> </span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext"> Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr. [mailto:<a href="mailto:poleary1969@gmail.com" target="_blank">poleary1969@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 16, 2011 5:48 PM<br><b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br><b>Cc:</b> deepika khowal; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a></span></p><div>
<div></div><div class="h5"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] evaporative coolers in equest<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p></div></div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">
i would agree with nick on this except for part #3. if you're using ashrae 62, or the 2000/2003/2006 imc (at least the way it is enforced in southern arizona), the evaporative cooler fan is required to run while the building is occupied so despite glazing upgrades you shouldn't be seeing any savings from the hvac system during occupied hours. you would probably see some during night setback if the building there's some thermostat setting that will operate the evap coolers to remove air (and the associated heat build up) but i would not think it to be that significant of a savings compared to heat gain during occupied hours.<br>
<br>i would think, as nick mentions in point 5, that the ummet cooling hours might be a better measure of what you are looking for. improved glazing should help reduce the rate of heat gain so the evap coolers should be able to meet whatever setpoint you are using with less unmet cooling hours. in reality i would think it would be more obvious by an occupant working proximity to the windows - if they're currently affected by the solar heat gain. i don't know your climate but in southern arizona you don't really want to be seated right next to a window with a direct sun exposure and insufficient airflow (evap) or mechanical cooling and poor windows.<br>
<br>On 8/16/11 2:22 PM, Nick Caton wrote: <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I hope we’re at a simple vocabulary disconnect here...</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Upgrading the windows will reduce your solar cooling loads.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Reducing your solar cooling loads will reduce the amount of heat to be removed from the building.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Reducing the amount of heat to remove will reduce the required hours of operation of your HVAC system (in this case, evaporative coolers) to maintain comfort.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Reducing the runtime of your evaporative coolers will result in reduced energy consumption. Fan energies primarily, in the case of evaporative coolers.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">In the event the existing system is not of sufficient capacity to begin with, you may also/instead observe a reduction in unmet cooling hours.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">The reduction of solar loads with a glazing upgrade could be <i>negligible</i> for a variety of possible reasons, but it’s unlikely the net effect is absolutely zero. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">~Nick</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="119" height="37" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC5CBB.C8A46B00" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#2D4D5E">NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900">SENIOR ENGINEER</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">25501 west valley parkway, suite 200</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">olathe, ks 66061</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">direct <a href="tel:913.344.0036" value="+19133440036" target="_blank">913.344.0036</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">fax <a href="tel:913.345.0617" value="+19133450617" target="_blank">913.345.0617</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:blue"> </span></u><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> deepika khowal [<a href="mailto:deepika.khowal@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:deepika.khowal@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 16, 2011 3:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] evaporative coolers in equest</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">This is an existing building with evaporative coolers.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">the proposed design to upgrade the windows and check the relative benefits.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I dont see much benefits in energy because evaporative coolers are sized based on Cfm and not btus, the savings will be in cfms.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">correct me if I am wrong.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">is there any other way I can show the benefit in the proposed case if not HVAC benefits?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Nick Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Hi Deepika,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I’m not certain any increase/decrease in cooling loads (such as solar loads affected by changing glazing) should have any effect on the reported “space cooling energy” when you’re using evaporative coolers. Direct evaporative (swamp) coolers of the simplest sort have only fan and pump energies to consider - no refrigerant! I would advise looking up the Detailed Simulation Reports Summary page 158/160 to review end use categories and what they cover. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I am unfamiliar with Bridgeport’s climate, but as a general rule if I observed a significant amount of glazing in a space served by a direct evaporative cooler… I’d be extra cautious to ensure the HVAC designer is carefully considering condensation and potential for other humidity-driven issues along the way. I’m most used to seeing them applied to well-ventilated and/or open-air spaces such as garages and gyms/hangars.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">~Nick</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="119" height="37" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC5CBB.C8A46B00" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#2D4D5E">NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900">SENIOR ENGINEER</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">25501 west valley parkway, suite 200</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">olathe, ks 66061</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">direct <a href="tel:913.344.0036" target="_blank">913.344.0036</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">fax <a href="tel:913.345.0617" target="_blank">913.345.0617</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:blue"> </span></u><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>deepika khowal<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 16, 2011 1:36 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] evaporative coolers in equest</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Hello all<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">I am modeling a building in Bridgeport, CA which has evaporative coolers.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I dont see any benefits if I replace existing clear glass with low-e in cooling energy consumption.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Did anyone model evaporative coolers/swamp coolers before?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I want to know whether there is a way to show cooling benefit with such HVAC system.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
Regards<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Deepika<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre>
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