the building has windows only on south facade.<div>I thk changing the glass type will have impact on unmet hrs.</div><div>however, I agree that since its diff to have a thermostat control for evaporative coolers during day, the savings are hard to quantify.</div>
<div>Thanks for help.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr. <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:poleary1969@gmail.com">poleary1969@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
i would agree with nick on this except for part #3. if you're using
ashrae 62, or the 2000/2003/2006 imc (at least the way it is enforced
in southern arizona), the evaporative cooler fan is required to run
while the building is occupied so despite glazing upgrades you
shouldn't be seeing any savings from the hvac system during occupied
hours. you would probably see some during night setback if the
building there's some thermostat setting that will operate the evap
coolers to remove air (and the associated heat build up) but i would
not think it to be that significant of a savings compared to heat gain
during occupied hours.<br>
<br>
i would think, as nick mentions in point 5, that the ummet cooling
hours might be a better measure of what you are looking for. improved
glazing should help reduce the rate of heat gain so the evap coolers
should be able to meet whatever setpoint you are using with less unmet
cooling hours. in reality i would think it would be more obvious by an
occupant working proximity to the windows - if they're currently
affected by the solar heat gain. i don't know your climate but in
southern arizona you don't really want to be seated right next to a
window with a direct sun exposure and insufficient airflow (evap) or
mechanical cooling and poor windows.<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 8/16/11 2:22 PM, Nick Caton wrote:
</div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">I
hope we’re at a simple vocabulary disconnect here...<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span>·<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Upgrading
the windows will reduce your solar cooling loads.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span>·<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Reducing
your solar cooling loads will reduce the amount of heat to be removed
from the building.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span>·<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Reducing
the amount of heat to remove will reduce the required hours of
operation of your HVAC system (in this case, evaporative coolers) to
maintain comfort.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span>·<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Reducing
the runtime of your evaporative coolers will result in reduced energy
consumption. Fan energies primarily, in the case of evaporative
coolers.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><span>·<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">In
the event the existing system is not of sufficient capacity to begin
with, you may also/instead observe a reduction in unmet cooling hours.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">The
reduction of solar loads with a glazing upgrade could be <i>negligible</i>
for a variety of possible reasons, but it’s unlikely the net effect is
absolutely zero. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">~Nick<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><img src="cid:part1.02090505.02000203@gmail.com" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" height="37" width="119"></span><b><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">NICK
CATON, P.E.</span></b><b><span style="color:rgb(45, 77, 94)"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:rgb(204, 153, 0)">SENIOR
ENGINEER<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:rgb(204, 153, 0)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">Smith
& Boucher Engineers</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:rgb(204, 153, 0)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">25501
west valley parkway, suite 200<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">olathe,
ks 66061<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">direct
<a href="tel:913.344.0036" value="+19133440036" target="_blank">913.344.0036</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">fax
<a href="tel:913.345.0617" value="+19133450617" target="_blank">913.345.0617</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size:10pt;color:blue">
</span></u><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt"> deepika
khowal [<a href="mailto:deepika.khowal@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:deepika.khowal@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 16, 2011 3:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] evaporative coolers in equest<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is an existing building with evaporative
coolers.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">the proposed design to upgrade the windows and
check the relative benefits.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I dont see much benefits in energy because
evaporative coolers are sized based on Cfm and not btus, the savings
will be in cfms.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">correct me if I am wrong.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">is there any other way I can show the benefit in
the proposed case if not HVAC benefits?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">Thanks<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Nick Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">Hi Deepika,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">I’m not certain any
increase/decrease in cooling loads (such as solar loads affected by
changing glazing) should have any effect on the reported “space cooling
energy” when you’re using evaporative coolers. Direct evaporative
(swamp) coolers of the simplest sort have only fan and pump energies to
consider - no refrigerant! I would advise looking up the Detailed
Simulation Reports Summary page 158/160 to review end use categories
and what they cover. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">I am unfamiliar with
Bridgeport’s climate, but as a general rule if I observed a significant
amount of glazing in a space served by a direct evaporative cooler… I’d
be extra cautious to ensure the HVAC designer is carefully considering
condensation and potential for other humidity-driven issues along the
way. I’m most used to seeing them applied to well-ventilated and/or
open-air spaces such as garages and gyms/hangars.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)">~Nick</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><img src="cid:part1.02090505.02000203@gmail.com" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" border="0" height="37" width="119"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)"> </span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">NICK
CATON, P.E.</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:rgb(204, 153, 0)">SENIOR ENGINEER</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:rgb(204, 153, 0)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">Smith & Boucher
Engineers</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">25501 west valley
parkway, suite 200</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">olathe, ks 66061</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">direct <a href="tel:913.344.0036" target="_blank">913.344.0036</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(45, 77, 94)">fax <a href="tel:913.345.0617" target="_blank">913.345.0617</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size:10pt;color:blue"> </span></u><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31, 73, 125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>deepika khowal<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 16, 2011 1:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] evaporative coolers in equest</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello all<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am modeling a building in Bridgeport,
CA which has evaporative coolers.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I dont see any benefits if I replace
existing clear glass with low-e in cooling energy consumption.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Did anyone model evaporative
coolers/swamp coolers before?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I want to know whether there is a way
to show cooling benefit with such HVAC system.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Deepika<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div><pre><fieldset></fieldset>
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