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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My own personal opinion is that ASHRAE Fundamentals has not rescued us here.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As Nick mentioned, the data presented there is for residential houses and relies on incredibly vague and subjective judgment calls by the modeler. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Furthermore, the values presented are in the unit’s of air changes per hour. To me, this is a terrible way to use the data. Your entries for infiltration then rely on the volume of the room to determine the amount of infiltration. The volume of the room (zone is probably a better term) has NOTHING to do with the infiltration. What if I have a gym that’s 150’x100’x50’ tall, but it only has 10’ wide by 50’ tall of exterior wall??? If I use the ASHRAE method and rely on air changes per hour, the zone will be modeled with a HUGE GIGANTIC REALLY REALLY LARGE amount of infiltration. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Yet this seems to be the only recourse we have that is grounded in any sort of defendable data.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have looked and looked for a reliable report or other source for real world commercial/institutional construction infiltration values to no avail. It would be so incredibly useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have, over the course of my energy modeling career, developed a set of seemingly practical infiltration values to use, using the units of “CFM per sq ft of gross external wall area” available in Trane Trace (I don’t believe these units are an option in eQuest). These values were developed by taking a number of buildings with no infiltration and arbitrarily adding infiltration in, until I get a reasonable utility consumption value. Hardly scientific and no way could I defend these values if they came under scrutiny, other than to say “well, you got a better idea????”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Some may say “Eh, who cares about infiltration anyway?”. Well, it makes a bigger difference then you’d think. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A novice user who relies on the ASHRAE air changes per hour is likely significantly oversizing their cooling equipment in large rooms (ie conference, assembly, gyms, etc) which is exactly where you don’t want to be oversizing cooling equipment. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Think about the components of a heating load – envelope conduction losses, taking in cold OA…and infiltration. Envelope losses are generally small, the design community likes to temper their OA (rightfully so), so where is a major component of the heating (consumption) load coming from? Infiltration really adds up. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>How do you justify replacing leaky, wood sash windows? How bout making a switch to spray foam insulation? How about modeling door seals? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’ve rambled enough. Point being, we all are forced to use arbitrary numbers for something that is a significant component of both equipment sizing and energy modeling and it just makes me mad and embarrassed when I have to explain to a client or colleague “well those are really important, but completely imaginary, numbers…”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bruce Easterbrook<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 09, 2011 5:41 PM<br><b>To:</b> John Bixler<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Basic stuff - Infiltration<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Since 1922!<br>Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>Abode Engineering<br>ASHRAE Member</span><br><br>On 09/08/2011 06:11 PM, lawrence Lile wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Good ol ASHRAE Fundamentals! Why didn't I think of looking there? Thanks! <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Nick Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi Lawrence,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>My copy of ASHRAE Principles of HVAC includes a table (5-1) excerpted from ASHRAE Fundamentals, 2001 (Table 7, Ch 28). This table provides air change rates as a function of subjective envelope airtightness (“tight” / “medium” / “loose”) and as a function of the outdoor design temperature. Upon reviewing the referenced Fundamentals chapter, I learned this table is built from research surveying residential homes of various vintages, so it helps to know that these are “tight” to “loose” residential constructions. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>In any case, I’ve used and cited this resource before when modeling infiltration and calculating sizing loads for non-residential projects as well. I’ve searched, but have yet to come up with an equivalent table based on surveying and measuring commercial constructions from a subjective/objective standpoint… That might be handier, but in the meantime this is a good tool for “converting” your subjective observations into the right ballpark. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=119 height=37 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC573C.86155120" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct <a href="tel:913.344.0036" target="_blank">913.344.0036</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax <a href="tel:913.345.0617" target="_blank">913.345.0617</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>lawrence Lile<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 07, 2011 12:50 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Basic stuff - Infiltration<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>In building modeling programs one always has to provide precise values for infiltration. In the real world, I will know one of two things: almost nothing (The building appears to be kinda leaky with old windows), or I will have a blower door test done at a specific pressure. How do I convert subjective ("kinda leaky") or objective (Blower door test) leakage into numbers that make sense in the program? Is there a guide one can use? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>--Lawrence<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Equest-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></pre></div></body></html>