<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
In the simple window model, all the bulk properties, chiefly
U-factor and SHGC, are smeared over a single monolithic layer. The
main source<br>
of discrepancy from the detailed layer-by-layer model, however, are
not the bulk properties, but the angular properties of the window.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="90">Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com">www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre>
<br>
On 8/3/2011 12:26 PM, Arpan Bakshi wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAA=SsNBT453O7G_fudBBvxoCo3WDtCyXDVofL++=ShqW7e0ZhA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div>One thought about the 0-frame and NRFC modeling method is,
what about the additional visible light transmissive areas for
what would have been opaque frame and is now glass? Do others
simply apply the same SHGC from COG properties to the frame, now
that the assembly is monolithic?</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Arpan</div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Joe Huang <span><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>
<div>This is an interesting thread that's related to a topic
that has been going around in ASHRAE TC 4.7 for almost four
years, so I'd like to add my two-cents.<br>
<br>
1. I've always understood that the fenestration requirements
in ASHRAE 90.1 are for the whole assembly, i.e.,
fenestration + frame. <br>
2. The NFRC rated values are also for the whole assembly,
but those bulk property values are insufficient for modeling
because (a) they do not indicate the angular properties of
the glazing, (b) they do not distinguish between
center-of-glass, edge-of-glass, or frame. <br>
3. If the detailed fenestration description is available,
one can model it in WINDOW-5/6 and produce a WINDOW-5 file
(or what the WINDOW-5 people call the "DOE-2 file"!) and use
that in DOE-2/eQUEST.<br>
4. If the detailed fenestration description is not
available, one can model it using the simple monolithic
window model in DOE-2, but the results may differ
substantially from 3, particularly for complex glazing
systems; under no circumstances should comparisons be done
mixing the two methods, i.e., comparing a window modeled
using WINDOW-5/6 and another modeled using the simple window
model.<br>
<br>
So, this gets to the topic floating around in ASHRAE TC 4.7
(Energy Calculations):<br>
<br>
5. Although 3 is the most desirable approach, there are many
instances where it's unfeasible, either because<br>
only the bulk properties have been defined, e.g., for ASHRAE
90.1 or Title-24, or the detailed fenestration descriptions
are not available, as in an existing building. For those
instances, would it be helpful to have a computer program
that would "reverse engineer" the layer-by-layer description
of the fenestration based on its bulk properties (assembly
U-factor, SHGC) and any other obtainable details, e.g.,
number of panes, gap thickness, frame material type, etc.
? A number of us within TC 4.7 have felt "yes", but I
thought I'd canvas people on this thread on what you think.<br>
<br>
Please send me e-mail if you wish to see the draft Work
Statement.<br>
<br>
Joe<br>
(former TC 4.7 Research Subcommittee Chair)
<pre>Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com/">www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
(o) <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28925%29388-0265">(925)388-0265</a>
(c) <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28510%29928-2683">(510)928-2683</a>
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre>
<br>
On 8/2/2011 11:23 AM, Brad Robinson wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div><span>There are, it seems, a multitude of ways
people on this forum go about modeling windows. It
would be interesting to know, in terms of a LEED
review, what others have been required to provide in
terms of modeling the windows. Does anyone have
experience on the Canadian side of the border what
is required? Thanks.</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>Brad Robinson<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><b><span>From:</span></b> R B <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:slv3sat@gmail.com"><slv3sat@gmail.com></a><br>
<b><span>To:</span></b> eQUEST Users List <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"><equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org></a><br>
<b><span>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, July 30, 2011
11:29:31 PM<br>
<b><span>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users]
URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s
Glass only<br>
<br>
<div>
<div>Came across this in eQuest help - basically
suggests to use zero frame width.</div>
<div>-Rohini</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true">Volume 2:
Dictionary</a><span> > </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true">Envelope Components</a><span>
> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true">WINDOW</a><span>
> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true">Window
Frames and Skylight Curbs</a></div>
<h5>FRAME-WIDTH</h5>
<div>Projected width of the frame in the plane of
the glazing (<a moz-do-not-send="true">Figure 27</a>).
We recommend that frames be entered only if the
frame area is more than 10 percent or so of the
glazed area, which is generally only the case in
residential applications. The program assumes
that the frame width is the same on all sides of
the window. If this is not the case, use the
average frame width.</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Alex Krickx
<span><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:akrickx@seriousenergy.com">akrickx@seriousenergy.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<div><span>Great thread- </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>To answer Vikram’s question -
When using WINDOW, you are slightly
limited in the output file (for
example, if I create an NFRC-type
model to figure out U-value for a
curtainwall system, I will need to
simply the window to export it into a
DOE-2 report format). When you do
import a WINDOW Report for DOE-2 into
eQUEST it does not load any frame
information with it – it presents the
COG glass performance. My process is
to adjust the spacer type and frame
width+conductance to make an object
that matches what WINDOW tells me my
window performance is. </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>I don’t model for LEED, so am
less familiar with what is required
for that – since I work for a window
manufacturer I usually have access to
all the data I need to determine
frame-inclusive u-value and SHGCs,
i.e. no need to rely on 90.1 defaults.
</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>Since the conversation was
about using NFRC data – let me ask
this question: NFRC data for windows
(curtainwall assemblies included) is
for a “default” size. I believe for
curtainwall a mulled unit is modeled
at 2m x 2m (or 78.54” x 78.54”) – as
shown below: </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span><img moz-do-not-send="true"></span><span>
</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>This is an example, but let’s
say that the NFRC value is U-0.34. If
your building has a smaller or larger
window (which will change the
glass-to-frame ratio) the U-value will
be different. </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>Is it still appropriate to use
the NFRC value in that case, where it
is entered as a frame-inclusive
U-factor and SHGC? I’m curious as to
how others approach this issue when
dealing with models for compliance. </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>Kind regards, </span></div>
<div><span>Alex Krickx </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>Alex Krickx, LEED AP </span></div>
<div><span>Building Energy Specialist </span></div>
<div><span>Serious Energy, Inc. </span></div>
<div><span>1250 Elko Dr, Sunnyvale, CA
94089 </span></div>
<div><span>(t) <a moz-do-not-send="true">408.541.8124</a>
</span></div>
<div><span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:akrickx@seriousenergy.com">akrickx@seriousenergy.com</a>
</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><i><span>The information contained in
this e-mail and any attachments may
be confidential, proprietary and/or
privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient then you have
received it in error and any review,
distribution or copying of this
message and any attachments is
prohibited and you are to notify the
sender immediately by reply e-mail
and delete immediately this message
and any attachments.</span></i><span>
</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div><b><span>From:</span></b><span> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sami, Vikram<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 29, 2011
1:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Robby Oylear; Bill
Talbert; Carol Gardner</span></div>
<div>
<div><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users]
URGENT: Window U-values: Total
window assembly v/s Glass only </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div><span>Firstly – congratulations
to all contributors – I think this
is probably the first time (that I
recall) that all of the posts on
this list have been on a single
thread. I couldn’t resist being a
part of this so I’m going to add
my 2 cents: </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>90.1 baseline values &
SHGC are assembly u-values so your
frame needs to be calculated into
this. To get the derated value –
you could either use the handy
little XL spreadsheet that comes
with the install of eQUEST (under
the data\window folder) called
eQUEST-DOE2 Glass Library.xls.
This gives you COG values <b>AND
</b>glass+frame NFRC values. They
have separate table where it is
sorted by U-value and SHGC – I use
it all the time (screenshot
below). </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><img moz-do-not-send="true"><span>
</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>So you can select your
values in conjunction with the
values below from the DOE2 help
file to get what you need. </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<div><b><br>
Frame Type</b> </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div><b>FRAME-CONDUCT
(excludes OA film)</b> </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div><b><br>
U-value<sup>a</sup></b>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<div>Thermally unbroken
aluminum </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div>3.037 (17.24) </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div>1.90 (10.79) </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<div>Thermally broken
aluminum </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div>1.245 (7.07) </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div>1.00 (5.68) </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<div>External flush glazed
aluminum </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div>0.812 (4.61) </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div>0.70 (3.97) </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<div>Wood with or without
cladding </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div>0.434 (2.46) </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div>0.40 (2.27) </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<div>Vinyl </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div>0.319 (1.81) </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div>0.30 (1.70) </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" valign="top">
<div><sup>a</sup> U-value
includes OA film at 15 mph
[6.7 m/s] windspeed<br>
FRAME-CONDUCT =
[(U-value)<sup>-1</sup> -
0.197]<sup>-1</sup>
Btu/ft2-F-h<br>
FRAME-CONDUCT =
[(U-value)<sup>-1</sup> -
0.035]<sup>-1</sup> W/m2-K
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><b><span> </span></b></div>
<div><span>Alternately, you can select
a COG value to match what you
want, set your frame to zero and
your spacer to UE-EQ-UC (this will
give you a uniform COG conductance
across the assembly). </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span>I am curious about LBNL
window imports. When you set up
your assembly in window – it
includes frames, but you import it
in as a glass type – should you
zero out the frame (as in the
second case) if you import from
window? </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><b><span> </span></b></div>
<div><b><span>Vikram Sami</span></b><span>,
LEED AP BD+C </span></div>
<div><span>Sustainable Design Analyst
</span></div>
<div><span>1315 Peachtree St. NE,
Atlanta, GA 30309 </span></div>
<div><span>t: <a
moz-do-not-send="true">404-443-7462</a>
f: </span><span lang="ES"><a
moz-do-not-send="true">404.892.5823</a> </span><span>
e: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vikram.sami@perkinswill.com">vikram.sami@perkinswill.com</a>
</span><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.perkinswill.com/"><span>www.perkinswill.com</span></a></span><span>
</span></div>
<div><b><span>Perkins+Will.</span></b><span>
</span><span>Ideas + buildings that
honor the broader goals of society</span><span>
</span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div><span> </span></div>
<div>
<div><b><span>From:</span></b><span>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robby
Oylear<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 29,
2011 4:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bill Talbert; Carol
Gardner<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Equest-users] URGENT: Window
U-values: Total window assembly
v/s Glass only </span></div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>From the 90.1 User's Manual pg
5-12: </div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>"With Addendum 90.1ag
(published </div>
<div>
<div>with Standard 90.1-2001)
glazed wall </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>systems, including glass
curtain walls used </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>on large buildings,
storefront glazing </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>systems, and other similar
products that </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>are assembled at the
construction site, as </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>opposed to at the factory,
must either be </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>rated using NFRC procedures
or the </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>default U-factor, SHGC and
VLT from </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Table A8.2. Since the
performance values </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>in Table A8.1A are based on
uncoated </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>clear glass in poorly
performing metal </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>frame, they do not offer any
credit for </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>low-e coatings, thermal break
frames or </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>any other advanced feature.
In general, </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>values from Table A8.1A will
not achieve </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>compliance with the
fenestration </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>requirements. </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>The NFRC procedure for
site-built </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>fenestration is described
in NFRC 100. </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>The NFRC ratings are based
on computer </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>simulations of various
product options at </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>standard sizes. (For
curtain walls, the </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>standard size specified is
2000 mm by </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>2000 mm, or approximately
79 in. by 79 </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>in.) Multiple glass options
can be included </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>in one simulation matrix.
The entire </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>simulation matrix is then
validated by a </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>single physical test at the
standard size. If </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>the matrix for a product
has previously </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>been validated, then a new
glass option </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>can be added to the matrix
by simulation </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>alone. Simulations and
tests must be done </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>by an NFRC-accredited
simulation and </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>test laboratories." </div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Also, the LEED Reference
Guide for Green Building Design
and Construction, pg 275
specifically references Tables
A8.1 and A8.2 or requires that
the products be certified and
labeled in accordance with NFRC.
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Not seeing any statements
that would allow the modeler to
perform their own fenestration
assembly performance
calculations. </div>
</div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>-Robby </div>
</div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:02
PM, Bill Talbert <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:btalbert@aeieng.com">btalbert@aeieng.com</a>>
wrote: </div>
<div>
<div>
<div><span>Regarding Omar’s
first question, I would
also clarify that adding a
frame to the baseline is
probably not the correct
approach unless you are
adjusting the U-value to a
center of glass value and
accounting for the frame
and edge effects such that
the total fenestration
performance is equal to
the 90.1 prescribed value.</span>
</div>
<div><span> </span> </div>
<div><span>‘They are silent
about frames but I would
use one, match the frame
width of your proposed
window. Use an Aluminum
frame with no thermal
break.’</span> </div>
<div><span> </span> </div>
<div><span>Baseline Table
5.5-1 through 5.5-8
specify ‘fenestration
assembly’ values which
include the effect of the
frames and edge of glass.
Modeling a frame in the
Baseline will further
degrade the overall
fenestration U-value
(unless your frame
outperforms the glazing)
and result in
overestimating the savings
relative to the
fenestration performance.
If you use the Table
values for your window
performance, frames
shouldn’t be included. If
you include a frame, you
should create a 90.1
compliant product using
WINDOW and use the
appropriate frame and
glazing performance values
as eQuest inputs such that
your overall frame and
glazing performance
matches the A90.1 Table
value.</span> </div>
<div><span>Regards,</span> </div>
<div><span>Bill</span> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><span> </span> </div>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top">
<div><b><span>Bill
Talbert</span></b><b><span>
</span></b><span>PE,
LEED® AP<br>
</span><span>Sustainable</span>
</div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div><span> </span> </div>
</td>
<td valign="top">
<div><b><span>AEI</span></b><span>
| AFFILIATED
ENGINEERS, INC. <br>
5802 Research Park
Boulevard |
Madison, WI 53719<br>
<br>
</span><span>P: <a
moz-do-not-send="true">608.441.6677</a> | C: <a moz-do-not-send="true">608.234.3803</a>
| F: <a
moz-do-not-send="true">608.238.2614</a></span><span> <br>
</span><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:btalbert@aeieng.com"><span>btalbert@aeieng.com</span></a>
| <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.aeieng.com/"><span>www.aeieng.com</span></a></b></span><span>
</span> </div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div><span> </span> </div>
<div><span> </span> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><span> </span> </div>
<div><span> </span> </div>
<div>
<div><b><span>From:</span></b><span>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol
Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday,
July 29, 2011 1:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Robby Oylear</span>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Equest-users] URGENT:
Window U-values: Total
window assembly v/s
Glass only </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>This came off of the
Window website: </div>
<div>WINDOW 6.3 is a
publicly available
computer program for
calculating total window
thermal performance
indices (i.e. U-values,
solar heat gain
coefficients, shading
coefficients, and
visible transmittances).
WINDOW 6.3 provides a
versatile heat transfer
analysis method
consistent with the
updated rating procedure
developed by the
National Fenestration
Rating Council (NFRC)
that is consistent with
the ISO 15099 standard.
The program can be used
to design and develop
new products, to assist
educators in teaching
heat transfer through
windows, and to help
public officials in
developing building
energy codes. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>On Fri, Jul 29,
2011 at 11:26 AM,
Robby Oylear <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
</div>
<div>
<div>Carol, </div>
</div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>I have to take
exception to this: </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>"As far as NFRC,
your Solarban glass
data is NFRC rated
which should be good
enough, I think.
It's rare in
commercial buildings
to have a rating for
the entire window."
</div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>From my first
response: </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><span>In order
to meet LEED
EAp2 Minimum
Energy
Performance, the
project must
comply with all
mandatory
provisions of
ASHRAE
90.1-2007.
Section 5.4.2
Fenestration and
Doors requires
that
fenestration
performance be
determined per
section 5.8.2.
Section 5.8.2.4
U-factor
requires that
the U-factor for
the overall
fenestration
area (including
framing) be
determined in
accordance with
NFRC 100. If you
do not have NFRC
data available,
values from
section A8.2 are
the only
acceptable
alternative.</span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>NFRC values for
the glazing alone
not "good enough".
This is exactly
what the reviewer is
trying to get at. </div>
</div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>I'd hardly call
NFRC certification
rare. In the State
of Washington NFRC
certification has
been required for
all glazing
assemblies for over
10 years. </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>How do you
justify certifying
that your projects
have met the
mandatory
provisions of
ASHRAE 90.1
without NFRC data?
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="1319113c3023b5b3_13177c071350ddb0_1317746f9272af25_13177255b63123b2__MailA"><b><span>Robby
Oylear, LEED</span></b></a><b><sup><span>®</span></sup></b><b><span>
AP BD+C</span></b>
</div>
<div><i><span>Mechanical
Project
Engineer</span></i>
</div>
<div><i><span>Energy
Analyst</span></i>
</div>
<div><i><span> </span></i>
</div>
<div><b><span>D</span></b><span>
</span><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true">206-788-4571</a> |</span><span> </span><b><span>C</span></b><span>
</span><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true">206-354-2721</a></span> </div>
<div><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.rushingco.com/"><b><i><span>www.rushingco.com</span></i></b></a>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Fri, Jul
29, 2011 at
11:12 AM,
Carol Gardner
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com">cmg750@gmail.com</a>> wrote: </div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Thu,
Jul 28, 2011
at 5:40 AM,
Omar Katanani
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>>
wrote: </div>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Dear
all,</span> </div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Thank
you for your
responses.</span>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
<ol type="1">
<li><span
lang="EN-GB">Are
the NFRC
testing and
the values in
table A8.2
used for the
Baseline,
Proposed, or
both
scenarios?</span><span
lang="EN-GB">
</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>For the
baseline
windows,
Appendix G
gives the
following
instructions:<br>
Fenestration<br>
U-factors
shall match
the
appropriate
requirements
in Tables
5.5-1 through<br>
5.5-8.
Fenestration
SHGC shall
match the
appropriate
requirements
in Tables<br>
5.5-1 through
5.5-8. <br>
They are
silent about
frames but I
would use one,
match the
frame width of
your proposed
window. Use an
Aluminum frame
with no
thermal break.
</div>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
<ol start="2"
type="1">
<li><span
lang="EN-GB">Let’s
say I do not
have NFRC test
results and
decide to use
the values in
table A8.2.
For a clear
double glazed
and metal
frame type, I
get an
assembly
U-factor of
5.1. How can I
input this
into eQUEST?
As far as I
know, I can
enter the
glass
properties and
the frame
properties. Do
I have to play
with the glass
properties and
check the LV-D
report for the
calculated
Assembly
u-value?</span><span
lang="EN-GB">
</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<div>A U of
5.1 does not
make sense.
Are you sure
this isn't R?<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Similarly,
for the
baseline,
Tables 5.5-1
to 5.5-8 of
ASHRAE 90.1
provide the
assembly
u-values for
vertical
glazing. How
can I enter
these values
into eQUEST?</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
<ol start="3"
type="1">
<li><span
lang="EN-GB">I
am attaching
the specs of
the proposed
glazing. These
numbers are
for the glass
only (note
that the
u-values
reported are
NFRC ones).
Additionally,
I know that
the frame will
be aluminium.
Do I still
need NFRC
U-values for
the whole
assembly, or
is the NFRC
usually for
the glass
only? If yes,
how can I
calculate the
whole assembly
U-value (given
that eQUEST
doesn’t have
the ability to
calculate
this)</span><span
lang="EN-GB">
</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<span>For your
proposed
building I
highly
recommend you
use LBNL's
Window
program. In it
you can select
your window
type, e.g.
casement,
picture, etc,,
select your
glass from
their glass
library, which
is huge and
definitely
includes
Solarban, and
then model
your frame
using whatever
information
the architect
gives you
related to
thermal breaks
and spacers.
After you run
your window in
the program
you can select
to save it to
a DOE 2 report
which will
automatically
go into your
DOE 2 Window
folder. Then
you just have
to select it
from the pull
down menu.</span><br>
<br>
<span>Otherwise,
input your
glass values,
as you are
already, and
input your
frame data,
the same data
you got from
your
architect, and
model it that
way. When you
look at your
LV-D report
you will
likely see a
variety of U
values. That's
because they
will vary
based on
window
size.due to
the frame
effect. You
need to have a
frame.</span><br>
<br>
<span>As far
as NFRC, your
Solarban glass
data is NFRC
rated which
should be good
enough, I
think. It's
rare in
commercial
buildings to
have a rating
for the entire
window.</span><br>
<br>
<span>Carol</span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Thanks
for clarifying
this, as my
project is
outside the US
and we are not
too familiar
with standards
such as NFRC.</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Best
regards,</span>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Omar</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">___________________________</span><span
lang="EN-GB">
</span></div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Omar
Katanani</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><br>
</span><span
lang="EN-GB">Sustainable
Design
Engineer</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Email:
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a></span> </div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
<div><span>EcoConsulting
(Lebanon)</span>
</div>
</div>
<div><span>Nahas
Building, 4<sup>th</sup>
floor</span> </div>
<div>
<div><span>4
St-Maron
Street /
Georges Haddad
Avenue</span>
</div>
<div><span>Postal
Code: 2028
5806 SAIFI</span>
</div>
<div><span>Beirut,
Lebanon</span>
</div>
<div><span>Tel:
</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><a
moz-do-not-send="true">+961 (0) 1 971 266</a><br>
Mobile: <a
moz-do-not-send="true">+961 (0) 3 045 045</a></span> </div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">EcoConsulting
(UK) Ltd<br>
28 Marshalsea
Road<br>
London, SE1
1HF<br>
Tel: <a
moz-do-not-send="true">+44
(0) 207 939
0989</a><br>
Fax: <a
moz-do-not-send="true">+44
(0) 207 939
0981</a></span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Website:
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ecoconsulting.net/">www.ecoconsulting.net</a></span> </div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> <img
moz-do-not-send="true"></span> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><b><span>From:</span></b><span>
Robby Oylear
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b>
28 July 2011
00:53<br>
<b>To:</b>
Omar Katanani<br>
<b>Cc:</b>
Brad Robinson;
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a></span>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
Re:
[Equest-users]
URGENT: Window
U-values:
Total window
assembly v/s
Glass only</span>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Omar,</span>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">To
directly
answer your
question:</span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">"</span><span
lang="EN-GB">I’m
assuming that,
given that I
entered the
u-values for
the glass
only, and then
I entered
information
about the
frame, then I
need not worry
about any
conversions in
U-values,
since eQUEST
has all the
necessary
information to
calculate the
equivalent
u-value of the
whole pane +
frame
assembly,
right?</span><span
lang="EN-GB">"</span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">No.
Your method
will result in
an assembly
U-value based
on your input
glass
conductance
and whatever
default frame
properties
that the
eQUEST wizard
will use. I
have never
tried to let
eQUEST
determine an
assembly
value, as NFRC
values are
required for
LEED and code
compliance
studies. I
would not be
surprised if
the values
eQUEST is
calculating
(shown in LV-D
and LV-E
reports like
previously
mentioned) are
much different
than what
you'll
actually see
in the test
results.</span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Again,
NFRC values
are a LEED
requirement,
so unless
you're just
doing
preliminary
analysis for a
client, you
need to
receive NFRC
simulation
reports or
certified
product
directory
numbers in
accordance
with NFRC 100.</span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><b><span
lang="EN-GB">Robby
Oylear, LEED<sup>®</sup>
AP BD+C</span></b>
</div>
<div><i><span
lang="EN-GB">Mechanical
Project
Engineer</span></i>
</div>
<div><i><span
lang="EN-GB">Energy
Analyst</span></i>
</div>
<div><i><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span></i>
</div>
<div><b><span
lang="EN-GB">D</span></b><span
lang="EN-GB">
</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><a
moz-do-not-send="true">206-788-4571</a> |</span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><b><span
lang="EN-GB">C</span></b><span
lang="EN-GB">
</span><span
lang="EN-GB"><a
moz-do-not-send="true">206-354-2721</a></span> </div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.rushingco.com/"><b><i><span>www.rushingco.com</span></i></b></a></span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">On
Wed, Jul 27,
2011 at 2:44
PM, <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>>
wrote:</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Dear
Robby,<br>
<br>
Yes, I am
modeling for
LEED purposes.<br>
I'll look into
A8.2. But at
least, is my
method correct
for the
proposed
scenario?<br>
<br>
Brad: I think
you need to
enter the
center of
glass u-value
in the "Glass
Type", and
then enter the
frame
properties in
the "Window"
properties...<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Omar</span> </div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
Quoting Brad
Robinson <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:brad.robinson@yahoo.com">brad.robinson@yahoo.com</a>>:</span>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
Is the u-value
listed for a
manufacturer
and specific
model on the
NRCAN website
centre of
glass or
overall
assembly?
Many windows
are custom
made to suit
so I am
unclear if
each
individual
custom window
would need to
be tested.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
In eQuest,
when entering
the window, if
the u-value
represents the
whole window,
including
frame, do you
need to enter
a frame width,
conductance
etc as well
under the
Window Frame
section under
Window
Properties?
Thanks.<br>
<br>
<br>
Brad Robinson<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Robby
Oylear <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Omar
Katanani <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>><br>
Cc: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
Sent:
Wednesday,
July 27, 2011
12:32:08 PM<br>
Subject: Re:
[Equest-users]
URGENT: Window
U-values:
Total window
assembly v/s
Glass only<br>
<br>
<br>
Omar,<br>
<br>
The answer
depends on the
purpose of
your study.
If you're
trying to get
results for a
client on the
impact of the
glazing on
their energy
performance,
this may be
adequate.
Make sure
you've entered
in the framing
information
properly
(metal vs.
non-metal).<br>
<br>
I'd recommend
opening up
your
simulation
output results
file
(xxxx.SIM) and
going to the
either the
last page of
the LV-D
report or sort
through your
LV-E report to
see what value
eQUEST has
calculated.
Compare these
values to the
ASHRAE
Fundamentals
results for
overall
assembly
values
including
frame to see
how close
you've come.
I would not
blindly trust
that eQUEST
will give you
an appropriate
overall
assembly value
based on
entering only
the center of
glass number.<br>
<br>
However, if
this is for a
LEED study,
this is not
adequate.
This an
excerpt from
an e-mail I
sent out
recently
regarding LEED
and NFRC
requirements.<br>
<br>
In order to
meet LEED EAp2
Minimum Energy
Performance,
the project
must comply
with all
mandatory
provisions of
ASHRAE
90.1-2007.
Section 5.4.2
Fenestration
and Doors
requires that
fenestration
performance be
determined per
section 5.8.2.
Section
5.8.2.4
U-factor
requires that
the U-factor
for the
overall
fenestration
area
(including
framing) be
determined in
accordance
with NFRC 100.
If you do not
have NFRC data
available,
values from
section A8.2
are the only
acceptable
alternative.<br>
<br>
Robby Oylear,
LEED®AP BD+C<br>
Mechanical
Project
Engineer<br>
Energy Analyst<br>
</span> </div>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">D206-788-4571
|C206-354-2721</span>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.rushingco.com/">www.rushingco.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jul
27, 2011 at
8:14 AM, Omar
Katanani <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear all,</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> <br>
I have a small
question
regarding
entering</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">window
properties to
eQUEST:</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> <br>
I have read a
lot of emails
in the forum</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">discussing
NFRC testing,
LBNL Window 5
import, and
other topics
that I haven?t<br>
paid attention
to before.</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> <br>
The way I
modelled my
windows is the</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">following:</span>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> <br>
1. I
have
manufacturer?s
specifications
listing the
glass
U-values, not
the total
assembly.<br>
2. In
the ?Glass
Types? (eQUEST
Detailed
Mode), I
created glass
types, and
entered the
glass
conductance,
visible
transmittance,
SC, and
emissivity
from the
manufacturer?s
details I
have.<br>
3. When
creating
windows, I
specify which
glass type
(from the ones
I created in
step 2), in
addition to
the frame
width and
conductance.</span>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
I?m assuming
that, given
that I</span>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">entered
the u-values
for the glass
only, and then
I entered
information
about<br>
the frame,
then I need
not worry
about any
conversions in
U-values,
since<br>
eQUEST has all
the necessary
information to
calculate the
equivalent
u-value of<br>
the whole pane
+ frame
assembly,
right?</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> <br>
I appreciate
your feedback
/ comments</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">today
if possible,
as this has
become really
urgent!</span>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> <br>
Many thanks,<br>
Omar<br>
___________________________<br>
Omar Katanani<br>
Sustainable
Design
Engineer<br>
Email: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a><br>
<br>
EcoConsulting
(Lebanon)</span>
</div>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">NahasBuilding,
4th floor</span>
</div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"><br>
4 St-Maron
Street/
Georges Haddad
Avenue<br>
Postal Code:
2028 5806</span>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">SAIFI</span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB">Beirut,
Lebanon<br>
Tel:
<a
moz-do-not-send="true">+961
(0) 1 971 266</a><br>
Mobile: <a
moz-do-not-send="true">+961 (0) 3 045 045</a><br>
<br>
EcoConsulting
(UK) Ltd<br>
28 Marshalsea
Road<br>
London, SE1
1HF<br>
Tel: <a
moz-do-not-send="true">+44
(0) 207 939
0989</a><br>
Fax: <a
moz-do-not-send="true">+44
(0) 207 939
0981</a><br>
Website: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ecoconsulting.net/">www.ecoconsulting.net</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users
mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe
from this
mailing list
send a blank
message to <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a></span>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users
mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe
from this
mailing list
send a blank
message to <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a></span>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users
mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe
from this
mailing list
send a blank
message to <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a></span>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users
mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe
from this
mailing list
send a blank
message to <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><span><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner
PE</span> </div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><br>
<span>This email and any files
transmitted with it are
confidential and intended solely
for the addressee. If you are not
the named addressee you should not
disseminate, distribute, copy, or
alter this email.</span> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a
blank message to <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank
message to <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>
_______________________________________________
Equest-users mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a>
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>