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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Indeed there are many ways to model
windows! I am kind of lost on how to proceed.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think I’m going to directly response to
the Review comment by arguing that eQUEST captures frame effects.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><i><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-style:italic'>“It is It is unclear whether the window U-value of 0.26 and
SHGC of 0.28 used for the Proposed case accounts for the impact of the window
frames on the whole assembly as required by ASHRAE modeling protocol. Please
provide additional information to confirm that the framed assembly U-value was
used for the Proposed case windows (e.g. showing that the whole window assembly
has been tested by NFRC, or verifying that LBNL Window5 calculations have been
provided for the whole assembly, or <u>verifying that the frame effects are
captured within the energy modeling software</u>), or revise the model
referencing ASHRAE 90.1-2007 Table A8.2 if needed.”</span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I mean, I got 1 or 2 responses in this
thread arguing that eQUEST does indeed capture frame effects. The issue is that
no single manufacturer has heard of NFRC in Lebanon (and there are no
documented standards on frames in Lebanon), and U-values of Table A8.2 are much,
much higher than what’s proposed, so using these A8.2 values in my proposed
case will increase my energy consumption considerably!</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Best regards,</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Omar</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>___________________________</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Omar Katanani</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Sustainable Design Engineer</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Email: <a
href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>EcoConsulting (Lebanon)</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Nahas</span></font><font
size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'> Building</span></font><font size=1 color=navy
face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>, 4<sup>th</sup> floor</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font
size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>4 St-Maron Street</span></font><font size=1
color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> / Georges Haddad Avenue</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Postal Code: 2028 5806
SAIFI</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Beirut</span></font><font
size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>, Lebanon</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tel: </span></font><font
size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>+961 (0) 1 971 266<br>
Mobile: +961 (0) 3 045 045</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>EcoConsulting (UK) Ltd<br>
28 Marshalsea Road<br>
London, SE1 1HF<br>
Tel: +44 (0) 207 939 0989<br>
Fax: +44 (0) 207 939 0981</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Website: <a
href="http://www.ecoconsulting.net/">www.ecoconsulting.net</a></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <img border=0
width=870 height=102 src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC520A.5A4A9690"></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Brad Robinson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 02 August 2011 21:24<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> R B; eQUEST Users List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users]
URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assemblyv/s Glass only</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>There
are, it seems, a multitude of ways people on this forum go about modeling
windows. It would be interesting to know, in terms of a LEED review, what
others have been required to provide in terms of modeling the windows. Does
anyone have experience on the Canadian side of the border what is
required? Thanks.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Brad
Robinson</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> R B
<slv3sat@gmail.com><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> eQUEST Users List
<equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, July 30, 2011
11:29:31 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users]
URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s Glass only</span></font></p>
<div id=yiv1044702846>
<div id="yiv1044702846d2h_breadcrumbs">
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Came across
this in eQuest help - basically suggests to use zero frame width.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>-Rohini</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Volume 2:
Dictionary<span class=yiv1044702846d2hbreadcrumbslinkseparator> > </span>Envelope
Components<span class=yiv1044702846d2hbreadcrumbslinkseparator> > </span>WINDOW<span
class=yiv1044702846d2hbreadcrumbslinkseparator> > </span>Window Frames and
Skylight Curbs</span></font></p>
</div>
<h5 style='background:white'><b><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>FRAME-WIDTH</span></font></b></h5>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Projected
width of the frame in the plane of the glazing (Figure 27). We recommend that
frames be entered only if the frame area is more than 10 percent or so of the
glazed area, which is generally only the case in residential applications. The
program assumes that the frame width is the same on all sides of the window. If
this is not the case, use the average frame width.</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On Fri, Jul
29, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Alex Krickx <<a href="mailto:akrickx@seriousenergy.com"
target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:akrickx@seriousenergy.com">akrickx@seriousenergy.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Great
thread-</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>To
answer Vikram’s question - When using WINDOW, you are slightly limited in the
output file (for example, if I create an NFRC-type model to figure out U-value
for a curtainwall system, I will need to simply the window to export it into a
DOE-2 report format). When you do import a WINDOW Report for DOE-2 into eQUEST
it does not load any frame information with it – it presents the COG glass
performance. My process is to adjust the spacer type and frame
width+conductance to make an object that matches what WINDOW tells me my window
performance is.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I
don’t model for LEED, so am less familiar with what is required for that –
since I work for a window manufacturer I usually have access to all the data I
need to determine frame-inclusive u-value and SHGCs, i.e. no need to rely on
90.1 defaults. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Since
the conversation was about using NFRC data – let me ask this question: NFRC
data for windows (curtainwall assemblies included) is for a “default” size. I
believe for curtainwall a mulled unit is modeled at 2m x 2m (or 78.54” x
78.54”) – as shown below:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img
border=0 width=533 height=491 src="%20"></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This
is an example, but let’s say that the NFRC value is U-0.34. If your building
has a smaller or larger window (which will change the glass-to-frame ratio) the
U-value will be different. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Is
it still appropriate to use the NFRC value in that case, where it is entered as
a frame-inclusive U-factor and SHGC? I’m curious as to how others approach this
issue when dealing with models for compliance.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Kind
regards,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Alex
Krickx</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color="#262f13"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#262F13'>Alex
Krickx, LEED AP</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=gray
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:gray'>Building
Energy Specialist</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Serious
Energy, Inc.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>1250
Elko Dr</span></font><font size=2 color=black><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>, Sunnyvale, CA 94089</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>(t)
408.541.8124</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a
href="mailto:akrickx@seriousenergy.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:akrickx@seriousenergy.com">akrickx@seriousenergy.com</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
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<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;
border-color:currentColor currentColor'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Sami, Vikram<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 29, 2011 1:39
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Robby Oylear; Bill Talbert;
Carol Gardner</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users]
URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s Glass only</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Firstly
– congratulations to all contributors – I think this is probably the first time
(that I recall) that all of the posts on this list have been on a single
thread. I couldn’t resist being a part of this so I’m going to add my 2 cents:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>90.1
baseline values & SHGC are assembly u-values so your frame needs to be
calculated into this. To get the derated value – you could either use the handy
little XL spreadsheet that comes with the install of eQUEST (under the
data\window folder) called eQUEST-DOE2 Glass Library.xls. This gives you COG
values <b><u><span style='font-weight:bold'>AND</span></u></b> glass+frame NFRC
values. They have separate table where it is sorted by U-value and SHGC – I use
it all the time (screenshot below). </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><img
border=0 width=1197 height=134 src="%20"></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>So
you can select your values in conjunction with the values below from the DOE2
help file to get what you need. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div align=center>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0
style='border-collapse:collapse'>
<tr>
<td width=197 valign=top bgcolor=aqua style='width:147.6pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
background:aqua;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'><br>
Frame Type</span></font></b></p>
</td>
<td width=146 valign=top bgcolor=aqua style='width:109.8pt;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:none;
background:aqua;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>FRAME-CONDUCT
(excludes OA film)</span></font></b></p>
</td>
<td width=144 valign=top bgcolor=aqua style='width:108.0pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
border-left:none;background:aqua;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:
currentColor'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'><br>
U-value<sup>a</sup></span></font></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=197 valign=top style='width:147.6pt;border-top:none;border-left:
solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-bottom:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor windowtext'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thermally unbroken aluminum</span></font></p>
</div>
</td>
<td width=146 valign=top style='width:109.8pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>3.037 (17.24)</span></font></p>
</td>
<td width=144 valign=top style='width:108.0pt;border:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor windowtext currentColor currentColor'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>1.90 (10.79)</span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=197 valign=top style='width:147.6pt;border-top:none;border-left:
solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-bottom:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor windowtext'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thermally broken aluminum</span></font></p>
</div>
</td>
<td width=146 valign=top style='width:109.8pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>1.245 (7.07)</span></font></p>
</td>
<td width=144 valign=top style='width:108.0pt;border:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor windowtext currentColor currentColor'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>1.00 (5.68)</span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=197 valign=top style='width:147.6pt;border-top:none;border-left:
solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-bottom:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor windowtext'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>External flush glazed aluminum</span></font></p>
</div>
</td>
<td width=146 valign=top style='width:109.8pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>0.812 (4.61)</span></font></p>
</td>
<td width=144 valign=top style='width:108.0pt;border:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor windowtext currentColor currentColor'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>0.70 (3.97)</span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=197 valign=top style='width:147.6pt;border-top:none;border-left:
solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-bottom:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor windowtext'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Wood with or without cladding</span></font></p>
</div>
</td>
<td width=146 valign=top style='width:109.8pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>0.434 (2.46)</span></font></p>
</td>
<td width=144 valign=top style='width:108.0pt;border:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor windowtext currentColor currentColor'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>0.40 (2.27)</span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=197 valign=top style='width:147.6pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
border-top:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor windowtext windowtext'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Vinyl</span></font></p>
</div>
</td>
<td width=146 valign=top style='width:109.8pt;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor currentColor windowtext'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>0.319 (1.81)</span></font></p>
</td>
<td width=144 valign=top style='width:108.0pt;border-top:none;border-left:
none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor windowtext windowtext currentColor'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>0.30 (1.70)</span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width=487 colspan=3 valign=top style='width:365.4pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
border-top:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-color:currentColor windowtext windowtext'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><sup><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>a</span></font></sup> U-value includes OA film at 15
mph [6.7 m/s] windspeed<br>
FRAME-CONDUCT = [(U-value)<sup>-1</sup> - 0.197]<sup>-1</sup>
Btu/ft2-F-h<br>
FRAME-CONDUCT = [(U-value)<sup>-1</sup> - 0.035]<sup>-1</sup> W/m2-K</p>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=2 color="#dcaa2c"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#DCAA2C;
font-weight:bold'> </span></font></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Alternately,
you can select a COG value to match what you want, set your frame to zero and
your spacer to UE-EQ-UC (this will give you a uniform COG conductance
across the assembly).</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I
am curious about LBNL window imports. When you set up your assembly in window –
it includes frames, but you import it in as a glass type – should you zero out
the frame (as in the second case) if you import from window? </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=2 color="#dcaa2c"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#DCAA2C;
font-weight:bold'> </span></font></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=1 color=gray
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray;
font-weight:bold'>Vikram Sami</span></font></b><font size=1 color=gray><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'>, LEED AP BD+C</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=1 color=gray
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'>Sustainable
Design Analyst</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=1 color=gray
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'>1315
Peachtree St. NE</span></font><font size=1 color=gray><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'>, Atlanta, GA 30309</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=1 color=gray
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'>t:
404-443-7462 f: </span></font><font size=1 color=gray><span
lang=ES style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'>404.892.5823 </span></font><font
size=1 color=gray><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'>
e: <a href="mailto:vikram.sami@perkinswill.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:vikram.sami@perkinswill.com">vikram.sami@perkinswill.com</a>
</span></font><font size=2 color="#1f497d"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.perkinswill.com/" target="_blank"><font
size=1 color=gray><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray;text-decoration:none'>www.perkinswill.com</span></font></a></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:3.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=1 color=gray
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray;
font-weight:bold'>Perkins+Will.</span></font></b><font size=1 color=gray><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:gray'> </span></font><font
size=1 color="#add425"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#ADD425'>Ideas
+ buildings that honor the broader goals of society</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;
border-color:currentColor currentColor'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Robby Oylear<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 29, 2011 4:18
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Bill Talbert; Carol Gardner<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users]
URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s Glass only</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From
the 90.1 User's Manual pg 5-12:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>"With
Addendum 90.1ag (published </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>with
Standard 90.1-2001) glazed wall </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>systems,
including glass curtain walls used </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>on
large buildings, storefront glazing </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>systems,
and other similar products that </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>are
assembled at the construction site, as </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>opposed
to at the factory, must either be </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>rated
using NFRC procedures or the </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>default
U-factor, SHGC and VLT from </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Table
A8.2. Since the performance values </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>in
Table A8.1A are based on uncoated </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>clear
glass in poorly performing metal </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>frame,
they do not offer any credit for </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>low-e
coatings, thermal break frames or </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>any
other advanced feature. In general, </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>values
from Table A8.1A will not achieve </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>compliance
with the fenestration </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>requirements.
</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>The
NFRC procedure for site-built </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>fenestration
is described in NFRC 100. </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>The
NFRC ratings are based on computer </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>simulations
of various product options at </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>standard
sizes. (For curtain walls, the </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>standard
size specified is 2000 mm by </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>2000
mm, or approximately 79 in. by 79 </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>in.)
Multiple glass options can be included </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>in
one simulation matrix. The entire </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>simulation
matrix is then validated by a </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>single
physical test at the standard size. If </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>the
matrix for a product has previously </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>been
validated, then a new glass option </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>can
be added to the matrix by simulation </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>alone.
Simulations and tests must be done </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>by
an NFRC-accredited simulation and </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>test
laboratories." </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Also,
the LEED Reference Guide for Green Building Design and Construction, pg 275
specifically references Tables A8.1 and A8.2 or requires that the products be
certified and labeled in accordance with NFRC. </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Not
seeing any statements that would allow the modeler to perform their own
fenestration assembly performance calculations.</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>-Robby</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Bill Talbert <<a
href="mailto:btalbert@aeieng.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:btalbert@aeieng.com">btalbert@aeieng.com</a>> wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Regarding
Omar’s first question, I would also clarify that adding a frame to the baseline
is probably not the correct approach unless you are adjusting the U-value to a
center of glass value and accounting for the frame and edge effects such that
the total fenestration performance is equal to the 90.1 prescribed value.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:36.0pt;background:white'><font size=2
color="#548dd4" face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;
color:#548DD4'>‘They are silent about frames but I would use one, match the
frame width of your proposed window. Use an Aluminum frame with no thermal
break.’</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Baseline
Table 5.5-1 through 5.5-8 specify ‘fenestration assembly’ values which include
the effect of the frames and edge of glass. Modeling a frame in the Baseline
will further degrade the overall fenestration U-value (unless your frame
outperforms the glazing) and result in overestimating the savings relative to
the fenestration performance. If you use the Table values for your window
performance, frames shouldn’t be included. If you include a frame, you should
create a 90.1 compliant product using WINDOW and use the appropriate frame and
glazing performance values as eQuest inputs such that your overall frame and
glazing performance matches the A90.1 Table value.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Regards,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Bill</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width=474 style='width:355.5pt'>
<tr>
<td width=167 valign=top style='width:125.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color="#660000" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#660000;text-transform:uppercase;font-weight:
bold'>Bill Talbert</span></font></b><b><font size=1 color="#333333"><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333;font-weight:bold'> </span></font></b><font
size=1 color="#333333"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'>PE, LEED®
AP<br>
</span></font><font size=2 color="#333333"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:#333333;text-transform:uppercase'>Sustainable</span></font></p>
</div>
</td>
<td width=10 valign=top style='width:7.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#333333" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</td>
<td width=283 valign=top style='width:212.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 color="#660000" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#660000;font-weight:bold'>AEI</span></font></b><font
size=1 color="#333333"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'> |
AFFILIATED ENGINEERS, INC. <br>
5802 Research Park Boulevard | Madison, WI 53719<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=1 color="#660000"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
color:#660000'>P: 608.441.6677 | C: 608.234.3803 | F: 608.238.2614</span></font><font
size=1 color="#333333"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'> <br>
</span></font><font size=1 color="#660000"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
color:#660000'><a href="mailto:btalbert@aeieng.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:btalbert@aeieng.com"><font color="#660000"><span
style='color:#660000;text-decoration:none'>btalbert@aeieng.com</span></font></a>
| <b><span style='font-weight:bold'><a href="http://www.aeieng.com/"
target="_blank"><font color="#660000"><span style='color:#660000;text-decoration:
none'>www.aeieng.com</span></font></a></span></b></span></font><font size=1
color="#333333"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;
border-color:currentColor currentColor'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Carol Gardner<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 29, 2011 1:35
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Robby Oylear</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font color=black><span lang=EN-US
style='color:black'> Re: [Equest-users] URGENT: Window U-values: Total window
assembly v/s Glass only</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>This
came off of the Window website:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>WINDOW
6.3 is a publicly available computer program for calculating total window
thermal performance indices (i.e. U-values, solar heat gain coefficients,
shading coefficients, and visible transmittances). WINDOW 6.3 provides a
versatile heat transfer analysis method consistent with the updated rating
procedure developed by the National Fenestration Rating Council (NFRC) that is
consistent with the ISO 15099 standard. The program can be used to design and
develop new products, to assist educators in teaching heat transfer through
windows, and to help public officials in developing building energy
codes. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Robby Oylear <<a
href="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Carol,</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I
have to take exception to this:</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>"As
far as NFRC, your Solarban glass data is NFRC rated which should be good
enough, I think. It's rare in commercial buildings to have a rating for the
entire window."</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From
my first response: </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>In
order to meet LEED EAp2 Minimum Energy Performance, the project must comply
with all mandatory provisions of ASHRAE 90.1-2007. Section 5.4.2
Fenestration and Doors requires that fenestration performance be determined per
section 5.8.2. Section 5.8.2.4 U-factor requires that the U-factor for
the overall fenestration area (including framing) be determined in accordance
with NFRC 100. If you do not have NFRC data available, values from section A8.2
are the only acceptable alternative.</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>NFRC
values for the glazing alone not "good enough". This is exactly
what the reviewer is trying to get at.</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I'd
hardly call NFRC certification rare. In the State of Washington NFRC
certification has been required for all glazing assemblies for over 10 years.
</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>How
do you justify certifying that your projects have met the mandatory provisions
of ASHRAE 90.1 without NFRC data?</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:1.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><a
name="13177c071350ddb0_1317746f9272af25_131772"><b><font size=2 color="#632423"
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#632423;
font-weight:bold'>Robby Oylear, LEED</span></font></b></a><b><sup><font size=2
color="#632423"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#632423;
font-weight:bold'>®</span></font></sup></b><b><font size=2 color="#632423"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#632423;font-weight:bold'> AP BD+C</span></font></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><font size=1 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black;
font-style:italic'>Mechanical Project Engineer</span></font></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><font size=1 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black;
font-style:italic'>Energy Analyst</span></font></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><font size=1 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black;
font-style:italic'> </span></font></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:115%;background:white'><b><font size=1
color="#632423" face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:8.0pt;
line-height:115%;color:#632423;font-weight:bold'>D</span></font></b><font
size=1 color="#1f497d"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:
115%;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font size=1 color=black><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:black'>206-788-4571 |</span></font><font
size=1 color="#bfab7f"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:
115%;color:#BFAB7F'> </span></font><b><font size=1 color="#632423"><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#632423;font-weight:
bold'>C</span></font></b><font size=1 color="#a50021"><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#A50021'> </span></font><font
size=1 color=black><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;
color:black'>206-354-2721</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:115%;background:white'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;
line-height:115%;color:black'><a href="http://www.rushingco.com/"
target="_blank"><b><i><font size=1 color="#632423"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
line-height:115%;color:#632423;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>www.rushingco.com</span></font></i></b></a></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On
Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Carol Gardner <<a
href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com">cmg750@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On
Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Omar Katanani <<a
href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>> wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)'>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Dear all,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Thank you for
your responses.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<ol start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;background:white'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Are the
NFRC testing and the values in table A8.2 used for the Baseline, Proposed,
or both scenarios?</span></font> </li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>For
the baseline windows, Appendix G gives the following instructions:<br>
Fenestration<br>
U-factors shall match the appropriate requirements in Tables 5.5-1 through<br>
5.5-8. Fenestration SHGC shall match the appropriate requirements in Tables<br>
5.5-1 through 5.5-8. <br>
They are silent about frames but I would use one, match the frame width of your
proposed window. Use an Aluminum frame with no thermal break.</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)'>
<div>
<div>
<div style='margin-left:18.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<ol start=2 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;background:white'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Let’s say
I do not have NFRC test results and decide to use the values in table
A8.2. For a clear double glazed and metal frame type, I get an assembly
U-factor of 5.1. How can I input this into eQUEST? As far as I know, I can
enter the glass properties and the frame properties. Do I have to play with
the glass properties and check the LV-D report for the calculated Assembly
u-value?</span></font> </li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>A
U of 5.1 does not make sense. Are you sure this isn't R?<br>
</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)'>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:36.0pt;background:white'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Similarly,
for the baseline, Tables 5.5-1 to 5.5-8 of ASHRAE 90.1 provide the assembly
u-values for vertical glazing. How can I enter these values into eQUEST?</span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='margin-left:18.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<ol start=3 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;background:white'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I am
attaching the specs of the proposed glazing. These numbers are for the
glass only (note that the u-values reported are NFRC ones). Additionally,
I know that the frame will be aluminium. Do I still need NFRC U-values for
the whole assembly, or is the NFRC usually for the glass only? If yes, how
can I calculate the whole assembly U-value (given that eQUEST doesn’t have
the ability to calculate this)</span></font> </li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<span style='background:white'>For your proposed building I highly recommend you
use LBNL's Window program. In it you can select your window type, e.g.
casement, picture, etc,, select your glass from their glass library, which is
huge and definitely includes Solarban, and then model your frame using whatever
information the architect gives you related to thermal breaks and spacers.
After you run your window in the program you can select to save it to a DOE 2
report which will automatically go into your DOE 2 Window folder. Then you just
have to select it from the pull down menu.</span><br>
<br>
<span style='background:white'>Otherwise, input your glass values, as you are
already, <u>and</u> input your frame data, the same data you got from your
architect, and model it that way. When you look at your LV-D report you will
likely see a variety of U values. That's because they will vary based on window
size.due to the frame effect. You need to have a frame.</span><br>
<br>
<span style='background:white'>As far as NFRC, your Solarban glass data is NFRC
rated which should be good enough, I think. It's rare in commercial buildings
to have a rating for the entire window.</span><br>
<br>
<span style='background:white'>Carol</span></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)'>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Thanks for
clarifying this, as my project is outside the US and we are not too familiar
with standards such as NFRC.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Best regards,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Omar</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>___________________________</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Omar Katanani</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=navy><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Sustainable
Design Engineer</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Email: <a
href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=1 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'>EcoConsulting
(Lebanon)</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=1 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'>Nahas</span></font><font
size=1 color=navy><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'> Building</span></font><font size=1 color=navy><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:navy'>, 4<sup>th</sup> floor</span></font></p>
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<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=1 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'>4
St-Maron Street</span></font><font size=1 color=navy><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'> / Georges Haddad Avenue</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=1 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'>Postal
Code: 2028 5806 SAIFI</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=1 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'>Beirut</span></font><font
size=1 color=navy><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'>, Lebanon</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=1 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'>Tel:
</span></font><font size=1 color=navy><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'>+961
(0) 1 971 266<br>
Mobile: +961 (0) 3 045 045</span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=1 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'>EcoConsulting (UK) Ltd<br>
28 Marshalsea Road<br>
London, SE1 1HF<br>
Tel: +44 (0) 207 939 0989<br>
Fax: +44 (0) 207 939 0981</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=1 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'>Website: <a
href="http://www.ecoconsulting.net/" target="_blank">www.ecoconsulting.net</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> <img
border=0 width=870 height=102 src="%20"></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:
12.0pt;color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> Robby Oylear [mailto:<a
href="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 28 July 2011 00:53<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Omar Katanani<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Brad Robinson; <a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users]
URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s Glass only</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Omar,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>To directly
answer your question:</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>"</span></font><font
size=1 color=navy><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:navy'>I’m assuming that,
given that I entered the u-values for the glass only, and then I entered
information about the frame, then I need not worry about any conversions in
U-values, <u>since eQUEST has all the necessary information to calculate
the equivalent u-value of the whole pane + frame assembly,</u>right?</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'>"</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>No.
Your method will result in an assembly U-value based on your input glass
conductance and whatever default frame properties that the eQUEST wizard will
use. I have never tried to let eQUEST determine an assembly value, as
NFRC values are required for LEED and code compliance studies. I would
not be surprised if the values eQUEST is calculating (shown in LV-D and LV-E
reports like previously mentioned) are much different than what you'll actually
see in the test results.</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Again, NFRC
values are a LEED requirement, so unless you're just doing preliminary analysis
for a client, you need to receive NFRC simulation reports or certified product
directory numbers in accordance with NFRC 100.</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-top:1.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><font size=2 color="#632423"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#632423;font-weight:
bold'>Robby Oylear, LEED<sup>®</sup> AP BD+C</span></font></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><font size=1 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black;font-style:
italic'>Mechanical Project Engineer</span></font></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><font size=1 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black;font-style:
italic'>Energy Analyst</span></font></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><font size=1 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black;font-style:
italic'> </span></font></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:115%;background:white'><b><font size=1
color="#632423" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:
115%;color:#632423;font-weight:bold'>D</span></font></b><font size=1
color="#1f497d"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font
size=1 color=black><span style='font-size:7.5pt;line-height:115%;color:black'>206-788-4571
|</span></font><font size=1 color="#bfab7f"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
line-height:115%;color:#BFAB7F'> </span></font><b><font size=1 color="#632423"><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#632423;font-weight:bold'>C</span></font></b><font
size=1 color="#a50021"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;
color:#A50021'> </span></font><font size=1 color=black><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;line-height:115%;color:black'>206-354-2721</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:115%;background:white'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:
115%;color:black'><a href="http://www.rushingco.com/" target="_blank"><b><i><font
size=1 color="#632423"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;
color:#632423;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>www.rushingco.com</span></font></i></b></a></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On Wed, Jul
27, 2011 at 2:44 PM, <<a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>> wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Dear Robby,<br>
<br>
Yes, I am modeling for LEED purposes.<br>
I'll look into A8.2. But at least, is my method correct for the proposed
scenario?<br>
<br>
Brad: I think you need to enter the center of glass u-value in the "Glass
Type", and then enter the frame properties in the "Window"
properties...<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Omar</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<br>
Quoting Brad Robinson <<a href="mailto:brad.robinson@yahoo.com"
target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:brad.robinson@yahoo.com">brad.robinson@yahoo.com</a>>:</span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
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<br>
Is the u-value listed for a manufacturer and specific model on the NRCAN website
centre of glass or overall assembly? Many windows are custom made to suit
so I am unclear if each individual custom window would need to be tested.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
In eQuest, when entering the window, if the u-value represents the whole
window, including frame, do you need to enter a frame width, conductance etc as
well under the Window Frame section under Window Properties? Thanks.<br>
<br>
<br>
Brad Robinson<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Robby Oylear <<a href="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Omar Katanani <<a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 12:32:08 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s
Glass only<br>
<br>
<br>
Omar,<br>
<br>
The answer depends on the purpose of your study. If you're trying to get
results for a client on the impact of the glazing on their energy performance,
this may be adequate. Make sure you've entered in the framing information
properly (metal vs. non-metal).<br>
<br>
I'd recommend opening up your simulation output results file (xxxx.SIM) and
going to the either the last page of the LV-D report or sort through your LV-E
report to see what value eQUEST has calculated. Compare these values to
the ASHRAE Fundamentals results for overall assembly values including frame to
see how close you've come. I would not blindly trust that eQUEST will
give you an appropriate overall assembly value based on entering only the
center of glass number.<br>
<br>
However, if this is for a LEED study, this is not adequate. This an
excerpt from an e-mail I sent out recently regarding LEED and NFRC requirements.<br>
<br>
In order to meet LEED EAp2 Minimum Energy Performance, the project must comply
with all mandatory provisions of ASHRAE 90.1-2007. Section 5.4.2
Fenestration and Doors requires that fenestration performance be determined per
section 5.8.2. Section 5.8.2.4 U-factor requires that the U-factor for
the overall fenestration area (including framing) be determined in accordance
with NFRC 100. If you do not have NFRC data available, values from section A8.2
are the only acceptable alternative.<br>
<br>
Robby Oylear, LEED®AP BD+C<br>
Mechanical Project Engineer<br>
Energy Analyst<br>
</span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>D206-788-4571
|C206-354-2721</span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<a href="http://www.rushingco.com" target="_blank">www.rushingco.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Omar Katanani <<a
href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear all,</span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <br>
I have a small question regarding entering</span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>window
properties to eQUEST:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <br>
I have read a lot of emails in the forum</span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>discussing
NFRC testing, LBNL Window 5 import, and other topics that I haven?t<br>
paid attention to before.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <br>
The way I modelled my windows is the</span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>following:</span></font></p>
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<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)'>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <br>
1. I have manufacturer?s specifications listing the
glass U-values, not the total assembly.<br>
2. In the ?Glass Types? (eQUEST Detailed Mode), I
created glass types, and entered the glass conductance, visible transmittance,
SC, and emissivity from the manufacturer?s details I have.<br>
3. When creating windows, I specify which glass type
(from the ones I created in step 2), in addition to the frame width and
conductance.</span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<br>
I?m assuming that, given that I</span></font></p>
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</blockquote>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>entered the
u-values for the glass only, and then I entered information about<br>
the frame, then I need not worry about any conversions in U-values, since<br>
eQUEST has all the necessary information to calculate the equivalent u-value of<br>
the whole pane + frame assembly, right?</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <br>
I appreciate your feedback / comments</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>today if
possible, as this has become really urgent!</span></font></p>
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margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-color:currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(204, 204, 204)'>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> <br>
Many thanks,<br>
Omar<br>
___________________________<br>
Omar Katanani<br>
Sustainable Design Engineer<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank"
ymailto="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a><br>
<br>
EcoConsulting (Lebanon)</span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>NahasBuilding,
4th floor</span></font></p>
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4 St-Maron Street/ Georges Haddad Avenue<br>
Postal Code: 2028 5806</span></font></p>
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color=black><span style='color:black'>, Lebanon</span></font><br>
<font color=black><span style='color:black'>Tel:
+961 (0) 1 971 266<br>
Mobile: +961 (0) 3 045 045<br>
<br>
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Tel: +44 (0) 207 939 0989<br>
Fax: +44 (0) 207 939 0981<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">www.ecoconsulting.net</a><br>
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