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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Regarding Omar’s first question, I would also clarify that adding a frame to the baseline is probably not the correct approach unless you are adjusting the U-value to a center of glass value and accounting for the frame and edge effects such that the total fenestration performance is equal to the 90.1 prescribed value.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#548DD4'>‘</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#548DD4'>They are silent about frames but I would use one, match the frame width of your proposed window. Use an Aluminum frame with no thermal break.’<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Baseline Table 5.5-1 through 5.5-8 specify ‘fenestration assembly’ values which include the effect of the frames and edge of glass. Modeling a frame in the Baseline will further degrade the overall fenestration U-value (unless your frame outperforms the glazing) and result in overestimating the savings relative to the fenestration performance. If you use the Table values for your window performance, frames shouldn’t be included. If you include a frame, you should create a 90.1 compliant product using WINDOW and use the appropriate frame and glazing performance values as eQuest inputs such that your overall frame and glazing performance matches the A90.1 Table value.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width=474 style='width:355.5pt'><tr><td width=167 valign=top style='width:125.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#660000;text-transform:uppercase'>Bill Talbert</span></b><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333'> </span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333'>PE, LEED® AP<br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333;text-transform:uppercase'>Sustainable</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=10 valign=top style='width:7.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=283 valign=top style='width:212.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#660000'>AEI</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333'> | AFFILIATED ENGINEERS, INC. <br>5802 Research Park Boulevard | Madison, WI 53719<br><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#660000'>P: 608.441.6677 | C: 608.234.3803 | F: 608.238.2614</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333'> <br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#660000'><a href="mailto:btalbert@aeieng.com"><span style='color:#660000;text-decoration:none'>btalbert@aeieng.com</span></a> | </span><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#660000'><a href="http://www.aeieng.com/"><span style='color:#660000;text-decoration:none'>www.aeieng.com</span></a></span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol Gardner<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 29, 2011 1:35 PM<br><b>To:</b> Robby Oylear<br><b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s Glass only<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>This came off of the Window website:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>WINDOW 6.3 is a publicly available computer program for calculating total window thermal performance indices (i.e. U-values, solar heat gain coefficients, shading coefficients, and visible transmittances). WINDOW 6.3 provides a versatile heat transfer analysis method consistent with the updated rating procedure developed by the National Fenestration Rating Council (NFRC) that is consistent with the ISO 15099 standard. The program can be used to design and develop new products, to assist educators in teaching heat transfer through windows, and to help public officials in developing building energy codes. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Robby Oylear <<a href="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Carol,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I have to take exception to this:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>"As far as NFRC, your Solarban glass data is NFRC rated which should be good enough, I think. It's rare in commercial buildings to have a rating for the entire window."<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>From my first response: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>In order to meet LEED EAp2 Minimum Energy Performance, the project must comply with all mandatory provisions of ASHRAE 90.1-2007. Section 5.4.2 Fenestration and Doors requires that fenestration performance be determined per section 5.8.2. Section 5.8.2.4 U-factor requires that the U-factor for the overall fenestration area (including framing) be determined in accordance with NFRC 100. If you do not have NFRC data available, values from section A8.2 are the only acceptable alternative.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>NFRC values for the glazing alone not "good enough". This is exactly what the reviewer is trying to get at.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I'd hardly call NFRC certification rare. In the State of Washington NFRC certification has been required for all glazing assemblies for over 10 years. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>How do you justify certifying that your projects have met the mandatory provisions of ASHRAE 90.1 without NFRC data?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:1.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a name="13177255b63123b2__MailAutoSig"><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#632423'>Robby Oylear, LEED</span></b></a><b><sup><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#632423'>®</span></sup></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#632423'> AP BD+C</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>Mechanical Project Engineer</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>Energy Analyst</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'> </span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:115%'><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#632423'>D</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:black'><a href="tel:206-788-4571" target="_blank">206-788-4571</a> |</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#BFAB7F'> </span><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#632423'>C</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#A50021'> </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:black'><a href="tel:206-354-2721" target="_blank">206-354-2721</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:115%'><a href="http://www.rushingco.com/" target="_blank"><b><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#632423'>www.rushingco.com</span></i></b></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Carol Gardner <<a href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com" target="_blank">cmg750@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Omar Katanani <<a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Dear all,</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Thank you for your responses.</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Are the NFRC testing and the values in table A8.2 used for the Baseline, Proposed, or both scenarios?</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>For the baseline windows, Appendix G gives the following instructions:<br>Fenestration<br>U-factors shall match the appropriate requirements in Tables 5.5-1 through<br>5.5-8. Fenestration SHGC shall match the appropriate requirements in Tables<br>5.5-1 through 5.5-8. <br>They are silent about frames but I would use one, match the frame width of your proposed window. Use an Aluminum frame with no thermal break.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.25in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><ol start=2 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo3'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Let’s say I do not have NFRC test results and decide to use the values in table A8.2. For a clear double glazed and metal frame type, I get an assembly U-factor of 5.1. How can I input this into eQUEST? As far as I know, I can enter the glass properties and the frame properties. Do I have to play with the glass properties and check the LV-D report for the calculated Assembly u-value?</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol></div></div></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>A U of 5.1 does not make sense. Are you sure this isn't R?<br> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:.5in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Similarly, for the baseline, Tables 5.5-1 to 5.5-8 of ASHRAE 90.1 provide the assembly u-values for vertical glazing. How can I enter these values into eQUEST?</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.25in'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><ol start=3 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo5'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I am attaching the specs of the proposed glazing. These numbers are for the glass only (note that the u-values reported are NFRC ones). Additionally, I know that the frame will be aluminium. Do I still need NFRC U-values for the whole assembly, or is the NFRC usually for the glass only? If yes, how can I calculate the whole assembly U-value (given that eQUEST doesn’t have the ability to calculate this)</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol></div></div></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><span style='background:white'>For your proposed building I highly recommend you use LBNL's Window program. In it you can select your window type, e.g. casement, picture, etc,, select your glass from their glass library, which is huge and definitely includes Solarban, and then model your frame using whatever information the architect gives you related to thermal breaks and spacers. After you run your window in the program you can select to save it to a DOE 2 report which will automatically go into your DOE 2 Window folder. Then you just have to select it from the pull down menu.</span><br><br><span style='background:white'>Otherwise, input your glass values, as you are already, <u>and</u> input your frame data, the same data you got from your architect, and model it that way. When you look at your LV-D report you will likely see a variety of U values. That's because they will vary based on window size.due to the frame effect. You need to have a frame.</span><br><br><span style='background:white'>As far as NFRC, your Solarban glass data is NFRC rated which should be good enough, I think. It's rare in commercial buildings to have a rating for the entire window.</span><br><br><span style='background:white'>Carol</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Thanks for clarifying this, as my project is outside the US and we are not too familiar with standards such as NFRC.</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Best regards,</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Omar</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>___________________________</span><span lang=EN-GB style='color:navy'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Omar Katanani</span><span lang=EN-GB style='color:navy'><br></span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Sustainable Design Engineer</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Email: <a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='color:navy'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>EcoConsulting (Lebanon)</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Nahas Building, 4<sup>th</sup> floor</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>4 St-Maron Street / Georges Haddad Avenue</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Postal Code: 2028 5806 SAIFI</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Beirut, Lebanon</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Tel: </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><a href="tel:%2B961%20%280%29%201%20971%20266" target="_blank">+961 (0) 1 971 266</a><br>Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B961%20%280%29%203%20045%20045" target="_blank">+961 (0) 3 045 045</a></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='color:navy'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>EcoConsulting (UK) Ltd<br>28 Marshalsea Road<br>London, SE1 1HF<br>Tel: <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20207%20939%200989" target="_blank">+44 (0) 207 939 0989</a><br>Fax: <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20207%20939%200981" target="_blank">+44 (0) 207 939 0981</a></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Website: <a href="http://www.ecoconsulting.net/" target="_blank">www.ecoconsulting.net</a></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB style='color:navy'> </span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> <img border=0 width=870 height=102 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC4DF7.7A685320"></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Robby Oylear [mailto:<a href="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com" target="_blank">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> 28 July 2011 00:53<br><b>To:</b> Omar Katanani<br><b>Cc:</b> Brad Robinson; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s Glass only</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>Omar,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>To directly answer your question:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>"</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I’m assuming that, given that I entered the u-values for the glass only, and then I entered information about the frame, then I need not worry about any conversions in U-values, <u>since eQUEST has all the necessary information to calculate the equivalent u-value of the whole pane + frame assembly,</u>right?</span><span lang=EN-GB>"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>No. Your method will result in an assembly U-value based on your input glass conductance and whatever default frame properties that the eQUEST wizard will use. I have never tried to let eQUEST determine an assembly value, as NFRC values are required for LEED and code compliance studies. I would not be surprised if the values eQUEST is calculating (shown in LV-D and LV-E reports like previously mentioned) are much different than what you'll actually see in the test results.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>Again, NFRC values are a LEED requirement, so unless you're just doing preliminary analysis for a client, you need to receive NFRC simulation reports or certified product directory numbers in accordance with NFRC 100.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:1.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423'>Robby Oylear, LEED<sup>®</sup> AP BD+C</span></b><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>Mechanical Project Engineer</span></i><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>Energy Analyst</span></i><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></i><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:115%'><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423'>D</span></b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="tel:206-788-4571" target="_blank">206-788-4571</a> |</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#BFAB7F'> </span><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423'>C</span></b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#A50021'> </span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="tel:206-354-2721" target="_blank">206-354-2721</a></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:115%'><span lang=EN-GB><a href="http://www.rushingco.com/" target="_blank"><b><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423'>www.rushingco.com</span></i></b></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 2:44 PM, <<a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>Dear Robby,<br><br>Yes, I am modeling for LEED purposes.<br>I'll look into A8.2. But at least, is my method correct for the proposed scenario?<br><br>Brad: I think you need to enter the center of glass u-value in the "Glass Type", and then enter the frame properties in the "Window" properties...<br><br>Best,<br>Omar<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB><br><br>Quoting Brad Robinson <<a href="mailto:brad.robinson@yahoo.com" target="_blank">brad.robinson@yahoo.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB><br><br>Is the u-value listed for a manufacturer and specific model on the NRCAN website centre of glass or overall assembly? Many windows are custom made to suit so I am unclear if each individual custom window would need to be tested.<br><br><br><br>In eQuest, when entering the window, if the u-value represents the whole window, including frame, do you need to enter a frame width, conductance etc as well under the Window Frame section under Window Properties? Thanks.<br><br><br>Brad Robinson<br><br><br><br>________________________________<br>From: Robby Oylear <<a href="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com" target="_blank">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Omar Katanani <<a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 12:32:08 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Equest-users] URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s Glass only<br><br><br>Omar,<br><br>The answer depends on the purpose of your study. If you're trying to get results for a client on the impact of the glazing on their energy performance, this may be adequate. Make sure you've entered in the framing information properly (metal vs. non-metal).<br><br>I'd recommend opening up your simulation output results file (xxxx.SIM) and going to the either the last page of the LV-D report or sort through your LV-E report to see what value eQUEST has calculated. Compare these values to the ASHRAE Fundamentals results for overall assembly values including frame to see how close you've come. I would not blindly trust that eQUEST will give you an appropriate overall assembly value based on entering only the center of glass number.<br><br>However, if this is for a LEED study, this is not adequate. This an excerpt from an e-mail I sent out recently regarding LEED and NFRC requirements.<br><br>In order to meet LEED EAp2 Minimum Energy Performance, the project must comply with all mandatory provisions of ASHRAE 90.1-2007. Section 5.4.2 Fenestration and Doors requires that fenestration performance be determined per section 5.8.2. Section 5.8.2.4 U-factor requires that the U-factor for the overall fenestration area (including framing) be determined in accordance with NFRC 100. If you do not have NFRC data available, values from section A8.2 are the only acceptable alternative.<br><br>Robby Oylear, LEED®AP BD+C<br>Mechanical Project Engineer<br>Energy Analyst<br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>D206-788-4571 |C206-354-2721<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB><br><a href="http://www.rushingco.com" target="_blank">www.rushingco.com</a><br><br><br><br><br><br>On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Omar Katanani <<a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>> wrote:<br><br>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <br>I have a small question regarding entering<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>window properties to eQUEST:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <br>I have read a lot of emails in the forum<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>discussing NFRC testing, LBNL Window 5 import, and other topics that I haven?t<br>paid attention to before.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <br>The way I modelled my windows is the<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>following:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <br> 1. I have manufacturer?s specifications listing the glass U-values, not the total assembly.<br> 2. In the ?Glass Types? (eQUEST Detailed Mode), I created glass types, and entered the glass conductance, visible transmittance, SC, and emissivity from the manufacturer?s details I have.<br> 3. When creating windows, I specify which glass type (from the ones I created in step 2), in addition to the frame width and conductance.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB><br> <br>I?m assuming that, given that I<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>entered the u-values for the glass only, and then I entered information about<br>the frame, then I need not worry about any conversions in U-values, since<br>eQUEST has all the necessary information to calculate the equivalent u-value of<br>the whole pane + frame assembly, right?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <br>I appreciate your feedback / comments<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>today if possible, as this has become really urgent!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <br>Many thanks,<br>Omar<br>___________________________<br>Omar Katanani<br>Sustainable Design Engineer<br>Email: <a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a><br> <br>EcoConsulting (Lebanon)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>NahasBuilding, 4th floor<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB><br>4 St-Maron Street/ Georges Haddad Avenue<br>Postal Code: 2028 5806<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB>SAIFI<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-GB>Beirut, Lebanon<br>Tel: <a href="tel:%2B961%20%280%29%201%20971%20266" target="_blank">+961 (0) 1 971 266</a><br>Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B961%20%280%29%203%20045%20045" target="_blank">+961 (0) 3 045 045</a><br> <br>EcoConsulting (UK) Ltd<br>28 Marshalsea Road<br>London, SE1 1HF<br>Tel: <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20207%20939%200989" target="_blank">+44 (0) 207 939 0989</a><br>Fax: <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20207%20939%200981" target="_blank">+44 (0) 207 939 0981</a><br>Website: <a href="http://www.ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">www.ecoconsulting.net</a><br> <br> <br> <br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-GB> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#888888'><br><br clear=all><br>-- <br>Carol Gardner PE<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><br>-- <br>Carol Gardner PE<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>