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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Firstly – congratulations to all contributors – I think this is probably the first time (that I recall) that all of the posts on this list have been on a
single thread. I couldn’t resist being a part of this so I’m going to add my 2 cents:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">90.1 baseline values & SHGC are assembly u-values so your frame needs to be calculated into this. To get the derated value – you could either use the handy
little XL spreadsheet that comes with the install of eQUEST (under the data\window folder) called eQUEST-DOE2 Glass Library.xls. This gives you COG values
<b><u>AND</u></b> glass+frame NFRC values. They have separate table where it is sorted by U-value and SHGC – I use it all the time (screenshot below).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img width="1197" height="134" id="Picture_x0020_5" src="cid:image004.png@01CC4E0E.0897B350"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">So you can select your values in conjunction with the values below from the DOE2 help file to get what you need.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div align="center">
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="197" valign="top" style="width:2.05in;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
background:aqua;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:
center">
<b><br>
Frame Type</b><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="146" valign="top" style="width:109.8pt;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:none;
background:aqua;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center">
<b>FRAME-CONDUCT (excludes OA film)</b><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="144" valign="top" style="width:1.5in;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
border-left:none;background:aqua;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center">
<b><br>
U-value<sup>a</sup></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="197" valign="top" style="width:2.05in;border-top:none;border-left:
solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-bottom:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thermally unbroken aluminum<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="146" valign="top" style="width:109.8pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center">
3.037 (17.24)<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="144" valign="top" style="width:1.5in;border:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center">
1.90 (10.79)<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="197" valign="top" style="width:2.05in;border-top:none;border-left:
solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-bottom:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thermally broken aluminum<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="146" valign="top" style="width:109.8pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center">
1.245 (7.07)<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="144" valign="top" style="width:1.5in;border:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center">
1.00 (5.68)<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="197" valign="top" style="width:2.05in;border-top:none;border-left:
solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-bottom:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">External flush glazed aluminum<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="146" valign="top" style="width:109.8pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center">
0.812 (4.61)<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="144" valign="top" style="width:1.5in;border:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center">
0.70 (3.97)<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="197" valign="top" style="width:2.05in;border-top:none;border-left:
solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-bottom:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Wood with or without cladding<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="146" valign="top" style="width:109.8pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center">
0.434 (2.46)<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="144" valign="top" style="width:1.5in;border:none;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center">
0.40 (2.27)<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="197" valign="top" style="width:2.05in;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Vinyl<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="146" valign="top" style="width:109.8pt;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center">
0.319 (1.81)<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="144" valign="top" style="width:1.5in;border-top:none;border-left:none;
border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:center">
0.30 (1.70)<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="page-break-inside:avoid">
<td width="487" colspan="3" valign="top" style="width:365.4pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto"><sup>a</sup> U-value includes OA film at 15 mph [6.7 m/s] windspeed<br>
FRAME-CONDUCT = [(U-value)<sup>-1</sup> - 0.197]<sup>-1</sup> Btu/ft2-F-h<br>
FRAME-CONDUCT = [(U-value)<sup>-1</sup> - 0.035]<sup>-1</sup> W/m2-K<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#DCAA2C"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Alternately, you can select a COG value to match what you want, set your frame to zero and your spacer to UE-EQ-UC (this will give you a uniform COG conductance
across the assembly).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">I am curious about LBNL window imports. When you set up your assembly in window – it includes frames, but you import it in as a glass type – should you zero
out the frame (as in the second case) if you import from window? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#DCAA2C"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">Vikram Sami</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">, LEED AP BD+C<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">Sustainable Design Analyst<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">1315 Peachtree St. NE, Atlanta, GA 30309<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">t: 404-443-7462 f:
</span><span lang="ES" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:gray">404.892.5823 </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray"> e: vikram.sami@perkinswill.com
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.perkinswill.com/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray;text-decoration:none">www.perkinswill.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:3.0pt;text-autospace:none"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">Perkins+Will.</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#ADD425">Ideas + buildings that honor the broader goals of society</span><span style="font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:green"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robby Oylear<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 29, 2011 4:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bill Talbert; Carol Gardner<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s Glass only<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">From the 90.1 User's Manual pg 5-12:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"With Addendum 90.1ag (published <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">with Standard 90.1-2001) glazed wall <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">systems, including glass curtain walls used <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">on large buildings, storefront glazing <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">systems, and other similar products that <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">are assembled at the construction site, as <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">opposed to at the factory, must either be <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">rated using NFRC procedures or the <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">default U-factor, SHGC and VLT from <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Table A8.2. Since the performance values <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">in Table A8.1A are based on uncoated <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">clear glass in poorly performing metal <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">frame, they do not offer any credit for <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">low-e coatings, thermal break frames or <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">any other advanced feature. In general, <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">values from Table A8.1A will not achieve <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">compliance with the fenestration <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">requirements. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The NFRC procedure for site-built <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">fenestration is described in NFRC 100. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The NFRC ratings are based on computer <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">simulations of various product options at <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">standard sizes. (For curtain walls, the <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">standard size specified is 2000 mm by <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2000 mm, or approximately 79 in. by 79 <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">in.) Multiple glass options can be included <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">in one simulation matrix. The entire <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">simulation matrix is then validated by a <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">single physical test at the standard size. If <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">the matrix for a product has previously <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">been validated, then a new glass option <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">can be added to the matrix by simulation <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">alone. Simulations and tests must be done <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">by an NFRC-accredited simulation and <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">test laboratories." <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Also, the LEED Reference Guide for Green Building Design and Construction, pg 275 specifically references Tables A8.1 and A8.2 or requires that the products be certified and labeled in accordance with NFRC. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Not seeing any statements that would allow the modeler to perform their own fenestration assembly performance calculations.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Robby<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Bill Talbert <<a href="mailto:btalbert@aeieng.com">btalbert@aeieng.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Regarding Omar’s first question, I would also clarify that adding a frame to the baseline is probably not the correct approach unless you are adjusting
the U-value to a center of glass value and accounting for the frame and edge effects such that the total fenestration performance is equal to the 90.1 prescribed value.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
text-indent:.5in">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#548DD4">‘They are silent about frames but I would use one, match the frame width of your proposed window. Use an Aluminum frame with no thermal break.’</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Baseline Table 5.5-1 through 5.5-8 specify ‘fenestration assembly’ values which include the effect of the frames and edge of glass. Modeling a frame
in the Baseline will further degrade the overall fenestration U-value (unless your frame outperforms the glazing) and result in overestimating the savings relative to the fenestration performance. If you use the Table values for your window performance, frames
shouldn’t be included. If you include a frame, you should create a 90.1 compliant product using WINDOW and use the appropriate frame and glazing performance values as eQuest inputs such that your overall frame and glazing performance matches the A90.1 Table
value.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0" width="474" style="width:355.5pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="167" valign="top" style="width:125.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#660000;text-transform:uppercase">Bill Talbert</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333">
</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333">PE, LEED® AP<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#333333;text-transform:uppercase">Sustainable</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="10" valign="top" style="width:7.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="283" valign="top" style="width:212.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#660000">AEI</span></b><span style="font-size:
9.0pt;color:#333333"> | AFFILIATED ENGINEERS, INC. <br>
5802 Research Park Boulevard | Madison, WI 53719<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#660000">P: <a href="tel:608.441.6677" target="_blank">
608.441.6677</a> | C: <a href="tel:608.234.3803" target="_blank">608.234.3803</a> | F:
<a href="tel:608.238.2614" target="_blank">608.238.2614</a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#660000"><a href="mailto:btalbert@aeieng.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#660000;
text-decoration:none">btalbert@aeieng.com</span></a> |
<b><a href="http://www.aeieng.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#660000;
text-decoration:none">www.aeieng.com</span></a></b></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 29, 2011 1:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Robby Oylear</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s Glass only<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>This came off of the Window website:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>WINDOW 6.3 is a publicly available computer program for calculating total window thermal performance indices (i.e. U-values, solar heat gain coefficients, shading coefficients, and visible transmittances). WINDOW 6.3 provides a versatile heat transfer analysis
method consistent with the updated rating procedure developed by the National Fenestration Rating Council (NFRC) that is consistent with the ISO 15099 standard. The program can be used to design and develop new products, to assist educators in teaching heat
transfer through windows, and to help public officials in developing building energy codes.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Robby Oylear <<a href="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com" target="_blank">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Carol,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I have to take exception to this:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">"As far as NFRC, your Solarban glass data is NFRC rated which should be good enough, I think. It's rare in commercial buildings to have a rating for the entire window."<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">From my first response: <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">In order to meet LEED EAp2 Minimum Energy Performance, the project must comply with all mandatory provisions of ASHRAE 90.1-2007. Section 5.4.2 Fenestration
and Doors requires that fenestration performance be determined per section 5.8.2. Section 5.8.2.4 U-factor requires that the U-factor for the overall fenestration area (including framing) be determined in accordance with NFRC 100. If you do not have NFRC
data available, values from section A8.2 are the only acceptable alternative.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">NFRC values for the glazing alone not "good enough". This is exactly what the reviewer is trying to get at.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I'd hardly call NFRC certification rare. In the State of Washington NFRC certification has been required for all glazing assemblies for over 10 years. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">How do you justify certifying that your projects have met the mandatory provisions of ASHRAE 90.1 without NFRC data?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:1.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a name="1317746f9272af25_13177255b63123b2__MailA"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
color:#632423">Robby Oylear, LEED</span></b></a><b><sup><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;color:#632423">®</span></sup></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
color:#632423">
AP BD+C</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">Mechanical Project Engineer</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">Energy Analyst</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:115%">
<b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#632423">D</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:black"><a href="tel:206-788-4571" target="_blank">206-788-4571</a> |</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;
line-height:115%;color:#BFAB7F">
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;
line-height:115%;color:#632423">C</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;
line-height:115%;color:#A50021">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;
line-height:115%;color:black"><a href="tel:206-354-2721" target="_blank">206-354-2721</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:115%">
<a href="http://www.rushingco.com/" target="_blank"><b><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#632423">www.rushingco.com</span></i></b></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Carol Gardner <<a href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com" target="_blank">cmg750@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Omar Katanani <<a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Dear all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Thank you for your responses.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:navy;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt">Are the NFRC testing and the values in table A8.2 used for the Baseline, Proposed, or both scenarios?</span><o:p></o:p>
</li></ol>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
background:white">
For the baseline windows, Appendix G gives the following instructions:<br>
Fenestration<br>
U-factors shall match the appropriate requirements in Tables 5.5-1 through<br>
5.5-8. Fenestration SHGC shall match the appropriate requirements in Tables<br>
5.5-1 through 5.5-8. <br>
They are silent about frames but I would use one, match the frame width of your proposed window. Use an Aluminum frame with no thermal break.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.25in">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ol start="2" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:navy;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt">Let’s say I do not have NFRC test results and decide to use the values in table A8.2. For a clear double glazed and metal frame type, I get an assembly U-factor of 5.1. How can I input this into eQUEST? As far as
I know, I can enter the glass properties and the frame properties. Do I have to play with the glass properties and check the LV-D report for the calculated Assembly u-value?</span><o:p></o:p>
</li></ol>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">A U of 5.1 does not make sense. Are you sure this isn't R?<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
text-indent:.5in">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Similarly, for the baseline, Tables 5.5-1 to 5.5-8 of ASHRAE 90.1 provide the assembly u-values for vertical glazing. How can I enter these values into eQUEST?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.25in">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ol start="3" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:navy;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt">I am attaching the specs of the proposed glazing. These numbers are for the glass only (note that the u-values reported are NFRC ones). Additionally, I know that the frame will be aluminium. Do I still need NFRC U-values
for the whole assembly, or is the NFRC usually for the glass only? If yes, how can I calculate the whole assembly U-value (given that eQUEST doesn’t have the ability to calculate this)</span><o:p></o:p>
</li></ol>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
<span style="background:white">For your proposed building I highly recommend you use LBNL's Window program. In it you can select your window type, e.g. casement, picture, etc,, select your glass from their glass library, which is huge and definitely includes
Solarban, and then model your frame using whatever information the architect gives you related to thermal breaks and spacers. After you run your window in the program you can select to save it to a DOE 2 report which will automatically go into your DOE 2 Window
folder. Then you just have to select it from the pull down menu.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white">Otherwise, input your glass values, as you are already,
<u>and</u> input your frame data, the same data you got from your architect, and model it that way. When you look at your LV-D report you will likely see a variety of U values. That's because they will vary based on window size.due to the frame effect. You
need to have a frame.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white">As far as NFRC, your Solarban glass data is NFRC rated which should be good enough, I think. It's rare in commercial buildings to have a rating for the entire window.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white">Carol</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Thanks for clarifying this, as my project is outside the US and we are not too familiar with standards such as NFRC.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Omar</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">___________________________</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:navy">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Omar Katanani</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:navy"><br>
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Sustainable Design Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy">Email:
<a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:navy">EcoConsulting (Lebanon)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:navy">Nahas Building, 4<sup>th</sup> floor</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:navy">4 St-Maron Street / Georges Haddad Avenue</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:navy">Postal Code: 2028 5806 SAIFI</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:navy">Beirut, Lebanon</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:navy">Tel:
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.5pt;color:navy"><a href="tel:%2B961%20%280%29%201%20971%20266" target="_blank">+961 (0) 1 971 266</a><br>
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B961%20%280%29%203%20045%20045" target="_blank">+961 (0) 3 045 045</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.5pt;color:navy">EcoConsulting (UK) Ltd<br>
28 Marshalsea Road<br>
London, SE1 1HF<br>
Tel: <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20207%20939%200989" target="_blank">+44 (0) 207 939 0989</a><br>
Fax: <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20207%20939%200981" target="_blank">+44 (0) 207 939 0981</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.5pt;color:navy">Website:
<a href="http://www.ecoconsulting.net/" target="_blank">www.ecoconsulting.net</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:
10.0pt;color:navy"> <img border="0" width="870" height="102" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC4E0C.D12049B0"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> Robby Oylear [mailto:<a href="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com" target="_blank">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 28 July 2011 00:53<br>
<b>To:</b> Omar Katanani<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Brad Robinson; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s Glass only</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">Omar,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">To directly answer your question:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">"</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt;color:navy">I’m assuming that, given that I entered the u-values for the glass only, and then I entered information
about the frame, then I need not worry about any conversions in U-values, <u>since eQUEST has all the necessary information to calculate the equivalent u-value of the whole pane + frame assembly,</u>right?</span><span lang="EN-GB">"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">No. Your method will result in an assembly U-value based on your input glass conductance and whatever default frame properties that the eQUEST wizard will use.
I have never tried to let eQUEST determine an assembly value, as NFRC values are required for LEED and code compliance studies. I would not be surprised if the values eQUEST is calculating (shown in LV-D and LV-E reports like previously mentioned) are much
different than what you'll actually see in the test results.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">Again, NFRC values are a LEED requirement, so unless you're just doing preliminary analysis for a client, you need to receive NFRC simulation reports or certified
product directory numbers in accordance with NFRC 100.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:1.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#632423">Robby Oylear, LEED<sup>®</sup> AP BD+C</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">Mechanical Project Engineer</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">Energy Analyst</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black"> </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:115%">
<b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;
color:#632423">D</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:
115%;color:#1F497D">
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.5pt;line-height:
115%;color:black"><a href="tel:206-788-4571" target="_blank">206-788-4571</a> |</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#BFAB7F">
</span><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#632423">C</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#A50021">
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.5pt;line-height:115%;color:black"><a href="tel:206-354-2721" target="_blank">206-354-2721</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:115%">
<span lang="EN-GB"><a href="http://www.rushingco.com/" target="_blank"><b><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#632423">www.rushingco.com</span></i></b></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 2:44 PM, <<a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Robby,<br>
<br>
Yes, I am modeling for LEED purposes.<br>
I'll look into A8.2. But at least, is my method correct for the proposed scenario?<br>
<br>
Brad: I think you need to enter the center of glass u-value in the "Glass Type", and then enter the frame properties in the "Window" properties...<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Omar</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
Quoting Brad Robinson <<a href="mailto:brad.robinson@yahoo.com" target="_blank">brad.robinson@yahoo.com</a>>:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
Is the u-value listed for a manufacturer and specific model on the NRCAN website centre of glass or overall assembly? Many windows are custom made to suit so I am unclear if each individual custom window would need to be tested.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
In eQuest, when entering the window, if the u-value represents the whole window, including frame, do you need to enter a frame width, conductance etc as well under the Window Frame section under Window Properties? Thanks.<br>
<br>
<br>
Brad Robinson<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Robby Oylear <<a href="mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com" target="_blank">robbyoylear@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Omar Katanani <<a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 12:32:08 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] URGENT: Window U-values: Total window assembly v/s Glass only<br>
<br>
<br>
Omar,<br>
<br>
The answer depends on the purpose of your study. If you're trying to get results for a client on the impact of the glazing on their energy performance, this may be adequate. Make sure you've entered in the framing information properly (metal vs. non-metal).<br>
<br>
I'd recommend opening up your simulation output results file (xxxx.SIM) and going to the either the last page of the LV-D report or sort through your LV-E report to see what value eQUEST has calculated. Compare these values to the ASHRAE Fundamentals results
for overall assembly values including frame to see how close you've come. I would not blindly trust that eQUEST will give you an appropriate overall assembly value based on entering only the center of glass number.<br>
<br>
However, if this is for a LEED study, this is not adequate. This an excerpt from an e-mail I sent out recently regarding LEED and NFRC requirements.<br>
<br>
In order to meet LEED EAp2 Minimum Energy Performance, the project must comply with all mandatory provisions of ASHRAE 90.1-2007. Section 5.4.2 Fenestration and Doors requires that fenestration performance be determined per section 5.8.2. Section 5.8.2.4
U-factor requires that the U-factor for the overall fenestration area (including framing) be determined in accordance with NFRC 100. If you do not have NFRC data available, values from section A8.2 are the only acceptable alternative.<br>
<br>
Robby Oylear, LEED®AP BD+C<br>
Mechanical Project Engineer<br>
Energy Analyst<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">D206-788-4571 |C206-354-2721</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
<a href="http://www.rushingco.com" target="_blank">www.rushingco.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Omar Katanani <<a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> <br>
I have a small question regarding entering</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">window properties to eQUEST:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> <br>
I have read a lot of emails in the forum</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">discussing NFRC testing, LBNL Window 5 import, and other topics that I haven?t<br>
paid attention to before.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> <br>
The way I modelled my windows is the</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">following:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> <br>
1. I have manufacturer?s specifications listing the glass U-values, not the total assembly.<br>
2. In the ?Glass Types? (eQUEST Detailed Mode), I created glass types, and entered the glass conductance, visible transmittance, SC, and emissivity from the manufacturer?s details I have.<br>
3. When creating windows, I specify which glass type (from the ones I created in step 2), in addition to the frame width and conductance.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
I?m assuming that, given that I</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">entered the u-values for the glass only, and then I entered information about<br>
the frame, then I need not worry about any conversions in U-values, since<br>
eQUEST has all the necessary information to calculate the equivalent u-value of<br>
the whole pane + frame assembly, right?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> <br>
I appreciate your feedback / comments</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">today if possible, as this has become really urgent!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"> <br>
Many thanks,<br>
Omar<br>
___________________________<br>
Omar Katanani<br>
Sustainable Design Engineer<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:omar@ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">omar@ecoconsulting.net</a><br>
<br>
EcoConsulting (Lebanon)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">NahasBuilding, 4th floor</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
4 St-Maron Street/ Georges Haddad Avenue<br>
Postal Code: 2028 5806</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB">SAIFI</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB">Beirut, Lebanon<br>
Tel: <a href="tel:%2B961%20%280%29%201%20971%20266" target="_blank">+961 (0) 1 971 266</a><br>
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B961%20%280%29%203%20045%20045" target="_blank">+961 (0) 3 045 045</a><br>
<br>
EcoConsulting (UK) Ltd<br>
28 Marshalsea Road<br>
London, SE1 1HF<br>
Tel: <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20207%20939%200989" target="_blank">+44 (0) 207 939 0989</a><br>
Fax: <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20207%20939%200981" target="_blank">+44 (0) 207 939 0981</a><br>
Website: <a href="http://www.ecoconsulting.net" target="_blank">www.ecoconsulting.net</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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