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<font size="+1">I don't remember running into that.<br>
Bruce<br>
</font><br>
On 26/07/2011 11:16 PM, Carol Gardner wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+Jz3pfztY3dP-Yz2XCa=387cbhUiA8M1WbuC1z+mfidCfgbkw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">But what about the case where you can't input the
over-sizing in the systems side because all the necessary inputs
are grayed out? <br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Bruce
Easterbrook <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca">bruce5@bellnet.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <font size="+1">No.
Your over sizing will carry from the terminal units to the
plant but not the other way around. Note Bills note about
the system variance. This will also apply to the plant.
It is a little awkward though and over sizes everything.<br>
<font color="#888888"> Bruce<br>
</font></font>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
On 26/07/2011 02:11 PM, Arunabha Sau wrote: </div>
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<blockquote type="cite">
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<div class="h5"><font face="tahoma,sans-serif">Thanks
Bill. Awesome clarification. I appreciate your time.<br>
</font>
<div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">So I was
wondering, if you oversize the Plant does the
AHU get oversized too by default, in eQuest?</font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Any thoughts?</font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Much thanks,</font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Aru</font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br>
</font>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/7/26 Bishop, Bill <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"
target="_blank">wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Aru,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I
don’t think the intention of G3.1.2.2
is met by oversizing only the plant
and not the systems. The 90.1 User’s
Manual does not specify what is to be
oversized either, although it does
describe a chiller when discussing the
differences in equipment sizing
between the ECB and PRM:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">“For
instance, if a chiller in the proposed
building is 50% oversized, then the
chiller in the budget building is also
50% oversized. However with the
building performance rating method,
equipment in the baseline building is
oversized by a fixed amount in all
cases.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">In
eQUEST, setting the system Cool Sizing
Ratio to 1.15 and Heat Sizing Ratio to
1.25 will also increase the autosized
capacities of the plant. I believe
this is how most Appendix G modelers
(including myself) address the
G3.1.2.2 requirement.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Note
that you could also achieve the same
cooling and heating capacity
oversizing by setting the overall
system Sizing Ratio to 1.15, the Cool
Sizing ratio to 1.00 and the Heat
Sizing Ratio to 1.087.
(1.15x1.087≈1.25). However, this
oversizes the system airflow by 15%,
and G3.1.2.8, which specifies how
design airflow rates are determined,
does not mention oversizing. I have
had models where unmet heating/cooling
hours could only be reduced
sufficiently by increasing the system
airflow as a last resort.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Bill</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><img
src="cid:part1.01060304.07050806@bellnet.ca" alt="Senior Energy
Engineer" height="116" width="486"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Arunabha Sau<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 25, 2011
7:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users]
Oversizing..AHU or Plant?</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Howdy!</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>So, I
just saw a project which has
applied its oversizing factors
(1.15 for cooling and 1.25 for
heating) to the plant rather
than the air handlers. ASHRAE
90.1 Appendix G <span>page 180,
G3.1.2.2 Equipment capacities
does not specify where the
oversizing should occur. Have
you seen this method used
before? Is it an acceptable
and accurate way of meeting
the baseline modeling
requirements?</span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I
appreciate your help.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Much
thanks,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Aru</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE<br>
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