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<font size="+1">Yes, no pilot energy, and for the HIR, I haven't
checked this with 90.1, but baseline I assume would be natural
draft, non condensing, which would be 1.25. Then you can take
credit for the higher efficiencies of the newer boiler/furnace
designs. Someone, Honeywell? is also making an iris shut-off for
the bottom of your chimney so it is only drawing when the
boiler/hot water tank is operating.<br>
Bruce<br>
</font><br>
On 23/06/2011 01:43 PM, Carol Gardner wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:BANLkTikN4YfusuQpQrFpvSfW6T9GHzw2og@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"> Hi Bill,<br>
<br>
I agree with your conclusions but got curious about boilers and
pilot lights and their usage. I have to admit to being fairly
ignorant when it comes to gas using equipment. So I did what I
usually do and Googled <i>energy use of a pilot light</i> and
came across this nice little website:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://energyexperts.org/EnergySolutionsDatabase/ResourceDetail.aspx?id=4407"
target="_blank">http://energyexperts.org/EnergySolutionsDatabase/ResourceDetail.aspx?id=4407</a><br>
that had a link to a nice little calculator that can be used to
calculate pilot light energy use:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.wisconsinpublicservice.com/home/gas_calculator.aspx"
target="_blank">http://www.wisconsinpublicservice.com/home/gas_calculator.aspx</a><br>
When you are in the calculator there is "more info" next to the
furnace line and it includes the following information "natural
gas furnaces and boilers have been required to have pilotless
ignitions since 1980". That would mean that the eQUEST default
should be modified to be 0, right?<br>
<br>
Carol<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Bishop,
Bill <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank">wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">Thanks Bruce.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">I appreciate your insight on the reasonable
range of furnace efficiencies. I was more concerned
with how to model the baseline per minimum ASHRAE
efficiencies. Using my question numbering, I’m going
with these answers:</span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span>1.)<span
style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">Warm Air Furnace</span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span>2.)<span
style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">No pilot light</span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span>3.)<span
style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">HIR=1.25</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">Bill</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt
medium medium; border-style: solid none none;
border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color
-moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: windowtext;"> Bruce
Easterbrook [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca" target="_blank">bruce5@bellnet.ca</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bishop, Bill<br>
<b>Cc:</b> eQUEST Users List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Furnace AFUE,
Et, HIR and furnace fuel auxiliary</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;">Hi
Bill,<br>
I don't have a project to pull up to get to these
inputs. I believe I normally enter the AFUE, and
78% is an medium oil number and a low gas number.
Typically most gas units on the market will give
you a 92% AFUE for a condensing unit and a few are
running in the 94% range. Oil you can get into
the 84% range. Don't do condensing oil, no one is
using the correct steel in the heat exchangers and
they rot out after a few years. No units run with
a pilot light anymore and you can see why, it is
all spark ignition. I normally use a warm air
furnace on a PSZ. Use 78% for oil and 92% for
gas, no pilot light for either. You can adjust
everything later on the heating/unitary power
tab. Grain of salt, I don't do LEED work, just
90.1. For the project I have open I have a HIR of
1.08 and 0 auxiliary, gas. So I probably input
92% AFUE in the wizard, no pilot light.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
</span><br>
On 21/06/2011 10:12 AM, Bishop, Bill wrote: </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">When selecting “furnace” for the
heat source, eQUEST adds 800 Btu/h for furnace fuel
auxiliary (pilot light) as default. The default 800
Btu/h adds 12% to my baseline heating energy, so it
is not trivial.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">ASHRAE Standard 90.1, Table
6.8.1E lists minimum furnace efficiency
requirements.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What should I enter for Furnace
HIR and Furnace Fuel Auxiliary for Baseline System 3
(PSZ-AC) and the new 90.1-2010 Baseline System 9
(Heating & Ventilation; Warm-air furnace,
gas-fired)?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">First, which equipment type
applies? Table 6.8.1E has three gas-fired equipment
types – Warm Air Furnace, Warm Air Duct Furnace, and
Warm Air Unit Heaters. I think both Systems 3 and 9
would be Warm Air Furnace, since packaged (System 3)
and ventilation (System 9) systems would seem to
preclude duct furnaces and unit heaters.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Second, does the note, “Units
must also include an interrupted or intermittent
ignition device (IID)” mean that no pilot light
should be modeled? This note to Table 6.8.1E does
not apply to Warm Air Furnaces <225,000 Btu/h in
90.1-2004 or 90.1-2007, but applies to all Warm Air
Furnaces in 90.1-2010. This is a LEED 2.2 project
but the building is currently under construction.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Third, Warm Air Furnace minimum
efficiency is 78% AFUE or 80% E<sub>t</sub> . Should
I use HIR=1.282 (78%) or HIR=1.25?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for your thoughts,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bill</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img
src="cid:part1.06030009.01050109@bellnet.ca"
alt="Signature in jpg form" height="123"
width="496"></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE<br>
</blockquote>
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