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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’ve run into this at
least once, and an approach that has worked for me is a riff on Bill’s
first suggestion. Start with: where is the air coming from?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>If the negative space is a
bathroom that in reality is drawing air from an adjacent open office space
under the same system, why not specify the exhaust (wholly or in part) in the
open office space? Perhaps another large minimum-airflow space under the same
system would work as well? Airflows and cooling requirements should balance out
at the system level provided the exhaust does not exceed the local zone airflow
rate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The balance of airflows may not
work for every case, but this can potentially be the simplest approach. Consider
carefully whether the quantity and scheduling of the exhaust will cause it to exceed
the hourly supply air rate for the zone(s) you’re considering.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>`Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
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color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith &
Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
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</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bishop,
Bill<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 22, 2011 10:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Anthony Hardman; Seun Odukomaiya; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] eQuest Accounting for Exhaust Fan Energy for
LEED<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Seun,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’ve used a few different
approaches to address the situation of a zonal exhaust fan that has a flow rate
close to, or larger than, the supply air flow to that zone:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>
- Model the zone as being part of the zone that it draws transfer air from. (An
example would be a single zone representing a corridor and a janitor closet.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>
- Increase the supply air flow to the zone with the exhaust fan, and decrease
it by the same amount in the zone that it draws transfer air from.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>
- Create a different thermostat schedule(s) to allow the temperature to float
more, and use the same schedule in both Baseline and Proposed. (If appropriate,
for example, use a 60°F heating setpoint.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>
- Make the zone with exhaust fan an unconditioned zone. This might be
appropriate for a trash/recycling or soiled linen room where you are not trying
to condition it within a certain temperature range.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=496
height=123 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image006.jpg@01CC30D3.396B0750"
alt="Signature in jpg form"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Anthony Hardman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 22, 2011 10:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Seun Odukomaiya'; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] eQuest Accounting for Exhaust Fan Energy for
LEED<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’ve run into the same problem
too. One thing I’ve tried is to decrease the zone level EA cfm
until the unmet hours are reasonable, and then increase the kw/cfm the
commensurate amount. That way, at least there’s some zone level
exhaust airflow and the SV-A report shows EA fan power equal to what is on the
exhaust fan schedule. A narrative to the GBCI reviewer explaining the
simulation limitations would hopefully suffice. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:#0F243E'>Anthony Hardman, PE<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#0F243E'>LEED AP
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#0F243E'>Building
Performance Analyst<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#0F243E'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:#00B050'>THE GREEN ENGINEER, LLP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:#00B050'>Sustainable Design Consulting
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style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#0F243E'>50 Beharrell St<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#0F243E'>O: 978/610-2801<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#0F243E'>C: 720/840-7862<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#0F243E'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image007.jpg@01CC30D3.396B0750"
alt="Description: TGE Logo"></span></a><a
href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ahardman81"><span style='color:#1F497D;
text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=31 height=28 id="Picture_x0020_2"
src="cid:image008.jpg@01CC30D3.396B0750" alt="Description: images5"></span></a><a
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style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#0F243E'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Seun
Odukomaiya<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] eQuest Accounting for Exhaust Fan Energy for
LEED<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>eQuesters<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I'm having some difficulty with properly modeling exhaust
fans in for LEED and I'm hoping someone can provide me with some guidance. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Here's my problem: I can enter the exhaust volumes and
associated KW/cfm for each zone where necessary, but some of the spaces have
design exhaust volumes greater than design supply air volumes (negative
pressure rooms). If I select "infiltration" or "balanced
infiltration" as the source of exhaust makeup for these zones, then the
unmet hours for that zone become very high. If I select "air handler"
as the source of makeup air, then eQuest increases the design supply air volume
to match the exhaust air volume for that zone. This is problematic because the
SV-A reports now have values that do not match my mechanical schedules.
Additionally, the energy consumption associated with those systems increases as
a result of the increased supply air volume. All in all, it's just not an
accurate representation of the design. Most of these zones are expected to make
up the air through zonal air transfer (something I realize eQuest is unable to
do).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>At this point, I'm considering adding the exhaust energy as
a direct load to my meter along with appropriate usage schedules, and
associating it to "ventilation fans". I believe the net effect on
energy consumption and peak demand should be the same as if the exhaust fans
were explicitly modeled. However, I'm curious as to any dynamic system or
thermal effects that I may be circumventing by not explicitly modeling the
exhaust fans for each zone. My gut feeling is that there shouldn't be much of
an effect, but I'm just not sure. I'm also concerned that by modeling exhaust
energy as a direct load, rather than explicitly, the SV-A reports won't show
any exhaust volumes and thereby call attention as to the validity of the model.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>At this point, I would like the guidance of some of the
members on this forum that have more experience with these issues. Is this even
an acceptable way to account for exhaust fan energy for LEED? I'm open to any
suggestions from anyone who has run into these issues and/or may have
experience in how to deal with it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks in advance<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:#17365D'>Seun Odukomaiya, EIT, LEED AP</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#17365D'> |<i> Mechanical Engineer</i> | </span><b><span
style='color:#17365D'>L’Acquis Consulting Engineers</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#17365D'> </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:#17365D'>|(317) 706-2075 Ext. 255 | </span><span style='color:#17365D'><a
href="http://www.laceindy.com/"><span style='color:#17365D'>www.lacquis.com</span></a></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> | <span style='color:#17365D'>To transmit large
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style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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