<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Stylus BT";
panose-1:2 14 4 2 2 2 6 2 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="2050" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=WordSection1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Robby! <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Let me back into this with some clarifications for everyone’s
benefit – I might be learning something here too!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>First, the procedure I’m describing below is specifically to
guide someone in developing an EIR-fPLR, not an EIR-fPLR& dT curve. In
that point, you and I diverged in how we’re advising Lyle to
proceed. The discussion I attached previously delves into whether one
curve type or another is appropriate for a given situation… but to summarize
a long discussion: a curve incorporating dT is not always critical to modeling
behavior in line with the actual equipment. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Second, below I’ve copied a library EIR-fPLR curve per
your suggestion, and I’ve generated a visualization as well for
discussion:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>[Inserted picture: eQuest library curve input screen
illustrating curve coefficients for an EIR-fPLR curve]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=732 height=541 id="Picture_x0020_33"
src="cid:image002.png@01CC2B7D.17E9DAD0"></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>[Inserted picture: Excel plot of that library curve’s coefficients]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=508 height=307 id="Picture_x0020_44"
src="cid:image004.png@01CC2B7D.8EB11CA0"></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>(x-axis is the PLR, y-axis is the “EIR factor”)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think we all agree, but let’s collectively be clear on
this point: This curve does <u>not</u> represent “efficiency.”
It is a factor applied against the EIR specified for the chiller at full load.
As we can observe, the EIR “correction factor” decreases as part
load decreases, and that agrees with our expectation that the chiller should
draw less energy per unit work (or be “more efficient”) at part
load. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Efficiency is “what you get out / what you put in,”
where measures like kW/ton and EIR are conceptually more of an inverse: “what
you put in / what you get out.” <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I took a look at the linked discussion Robby, and while I was
not privy to the off-list discussion, I sense we may have a different
understanding here (or we might concur?)… Does all this sit agreeably
with you to this point? If anything I’m stating seems incorrect, I
(and others) would very much appreciate being corrected, preferably with
illustrations ^_^!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Our syntax might be getting in the way... so let me touch on
that as well: When I say this library curve is “normalized,” it
is because the derived equation returns a correction factor, not an actual EIR
figure. The library curve above is telling us that at 100% loading, the
EIR should be 1.00 x [specified EIR at 100%]. If you were build a curve
as I describe below without first dividing the EIR data points by the 100%
figure (so the factor at 100% is 1.0), you will have coefficients that will
produce actual EIR’s for any given PLR, which would be multiplied for
each hour against the specified EIR… The results could either be wildly
off from reality, or could also produce deceptively sensible behavior as well. I
suppose a curve created this way might be made to work correctly if you make a
point to specify the chiller’s EIR as 1, but I’m not entirely sure
something else wouldn’t be affected… =)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I do want to support that Robby is correct to assert one cannot
build a performance curve from an IPLV rating alone, but one can work towards a
simple fPLR curve if that’s desirable and appropriate for the model at
hand, if you do have the values for each part load point as Lyle is describing
(you cannot extrapolate these from the IPLV number).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>A few extra points: I forgot to mention is that EIR-fPLR curves
can be entered as either Quadratic (2<sup>nd</sup> order) or Cubic (3<sup>rd</sup>
order), so in excel it would be a good exercise to try out both with your
curve-fit and see what shape fits your data/expectations best. Also, I
may have somewhat overstated the importance of specifying a chiller at ARI
conditions when using EIR-fPLR curves… but suffice to say – the library
curves are built around ARI conditions, so specifying your chiller at ARI
conditions is always a safe bet if you aren’t planning to make a full set
of curves around your design conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Game on!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC2B7B.BBD17560" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Robby Oylear
[mailto:robbyoylear@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 15, 2011 4:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Lyle Keck; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] IPLV Curve Fit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi Nick,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>In my experience the EIRFLPR curve is not looking for a
normalized efficiency. If you look at the default chiller curves you'll
notice that the EIRFPLR correction factor actually decreases as you approach
zero part-load. This would not make sense if it was an EIR correction
factor, as the efficiency of the chiller actually increases as part-load
decreases (at least with a variable speed chiller).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The chiller EIRFPLR curve is actually looking for a ratio of
current kW power draw divided by kW power draw at full-load.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The thread from when I was struggling through this for the
first time myself is located here: <a
href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/2008-February/006827.html">http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/2008-February/006827.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Not all that useful as I believe someone assisted me through
the process off-list, but the conclusion remains the same.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>-Robby<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Nick Caton <<a
href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Lyle,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>I think you need to review a little further before
proceeding. Read through the attached discussion from the bottom
up. This discussion diverges a bit (as performance curve topics usually
do) but I think you’re a bit ahead of the curve so to speak (har har!) in
recognizing what the IPLV numbers really mean. Plugging in your IPLV
values as coefficients for a cubic equation (where f(x) = Ax^3+Bx^2+Cx+D) is
pretty much wildly different from the correct course of action, but
you’re definitely in the ballpark’s parking lot ;).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Ultimately, you (and others – listen up!) will
probably have the best shot of getting it right on the first go if you
visualize what you’re doing in excel. That’s what worked for
me when I was climbing this mountain:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>Assemble your part load percentages and
corresponding EER’s in excel</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>Stop and review what the curve in eQuest is
looking up, and from what variable(s). You can glean this from the title
of the default curve used… In this case, you want eQuest to
determine EIR each hour as a function of Part load (EIRfPLR). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>Knowing that, convert convert your EER
values to to EIR</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>Now, normalize each EIR value to the ARI
value*. If the EER at ARI is 9, and your 50% part load EER is 6, then the
normalized vaule is 6/9 = 0.67. This normalized number is actually a
multiplier of sorts that eQuest will apply against your specified ARI
efficiency in the chiller input window. If none of this is making sense,
go back further and review my “recommended reading” list in a
thread called “Chiller curves, oh boy!” from sometime last year in
the archives.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>Using excel, plot these normalized
efficiencies (y-axis) against the part load ratios (x-axis) with a scatter
chart.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>Right click and add a curve-fit to the
series. In the dialog, try making it third order (quadratic) and see if
you get a good fit. Check the option to display the curve equation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>Voila, there are your four coefficients
(A,B,C,D – see eQuest’s curve inputs to be sure you know which is
which in the quadratic format) for eQuest! You’ve also developed a
visual check to ensure the numbers make sense.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>*Important: You MUST work from ARI-condition data
points, and normalize to the ARI condition, and specify your chiller’s
capacity/efficiency at ARI conditions, if you are trying to only make PLR
curves without doing a full set of custom curves. The reasons why are
complex, and I’ve already nearly written a book on the matter in the
archives if you’re itching to know why ^_^. If you want to specify
your chiller around design conditions, then it’s all or nothing (library
curves) with regard to custom curve creation!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>A general statement/consolation to everyone: We all have
to crawl before we can run! Make no mistake, coming to a true fundamental
understanding of custom curves in eQuest/DOE2, to the point you can manipulate
and even create them on your own, is no small feat. They should give out
medals! The best way to develop this skill set is to accept you will
probably screw it up a few times to start, look hard at your results, and read
up on the literature/advice that’s out there in order to learn what it is
that you personally don’t know. Once you come around to
understanding what you do know, and more importantly what you know that you
don’t know… (<a href="http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfeld"
target="_blank">Donald Rumsfeld would make a good energy modeler, lol</a>),
it’s all downhill from there, and you can begin to ask the right
questions of yourself and others to bridge your personal gaps. Making
mistakes is commendable, provided you resolve to learn from them! </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'><b>Error! Filename not specified.</b></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct <a href="tel:913.344.0036"
target="_blank">913.344.0036</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax <a href="tel:913.345.0617"
target="_blank">913.345.0617</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><b>Error! Filename not specified.</b></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct <a href="tel:913.344.0036"
target="_blank">913.344.0036</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax <a href="tel:913.345.0617"
target="_blank">913.345.0617</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com"
target="_blank" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Robby Oylear<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 15, 2011 2:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Lyle Keck<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] IPLV Curve Fit</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Lyle,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
short answer is no. IPLV cannot be used to create performance curves in
eQUEST.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Part-load
curves are a strange animal in eQUEST. You'll need cooperation from the chiller
manufacturer to get the correct data. You need to have enough data to
describe the way energy varies as a function of part-load, chilled water supply
temp, and outside air temperature. Take a look at the attached
spreadsheet which can be used to create curves in eQUEST. The data in
yellow should be entered by the manufacturer or manufacturer's rep. The data in
red should be entered into eQUEST. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If
you look into the formulas, you'll note that EIR-FPLR is actually not an EIR
factor, it is based on the power draw of the equipment at part-load compared to
at full-load. This throws a lot of people off as it is not described that
way in the help documentation.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
interesting question that arises when working with custom part-load curves is
how accurate does the eQUEST default performance curve model the required IPLV
for the baseline per ASHRAE 90.1? In my experience the default curve is
approximately 10% worse than the IPLV requirement.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hope
this helps,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Robby
Oylear, LEED AP BD+C<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Mechanical
Project Engineer<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Energy
Analyst<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Rushing<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Lyle Keck <<a href="mailto:lkeck@aeieng.com"
target="_blank">lkeck@aeieng.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>All,
<br>
<br>
I am trying to create a part load curve for an air-cooled screw chiller.
I have the EER & COP data for 100%, 75%, 50%, and 25% loading. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
have read through the various posts in the archives and I am still unsure if I
should input this data as ‘raw data’ or
‘coefficients’ <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>From
previous posts: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>IPLV (or NPLV) =
0.01A+0.42B+0.45C+0.12D</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Where:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>A = COP or EER @ 100% Load</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>B = COP or EER @ 75% Load</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>C = COP or EER @ 50% Load</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>D = COP or EER @ 25% Load</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It
is my understanding that EIR-PLR curves give the EIR as a function of part load
ratio. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>SO,
if I create a ‘cubic’ curve with input type ‘curve
coefficients’, and input a=(1/COP-100%), b=(1/COP-75%), c=(1/COP-50%),
and d=(1/COP-25%) and specify this curve as the EIR - f(part load ratio) curve,
would that be accurate? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Additionally,
this chiller has a condenser water temp of 95 degF and design conditions that
differ from AHRI conditions (design EWT=58 degF and LWT=44 degF)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Do
these values have direct correlation to the curve creation ? Or can the
condenser and CHW temp simply be defined in the ‘basic
specifications’ tab for the chiller, and the EWT defined via the CHW loop
deltaT?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
know this topic has been widely discussed, but I am still uneasy about the
actual inputs for the creation of the part load performance curve.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Any
input, or reference to a previous post would be appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks
in advance,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width=474 style='width:355.5pt'>
<tr>
<td width=167 valign=top style='width:125.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#660000;text-transform:uppercase'>Lyle Keck</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'> </span></b><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#333333;text-transform:uppercase'>SustainablE
Systems Analyst</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=10 valign=top style='width:7.5pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=283 valign=top style='width:212.25pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#660000'>AEI</span></b><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;color:#333333'> | AFFILIATED ENGINEERS, INC. <br>
Westlake Center Office Tower, 1601 Fifth Avenue, Suite 1400 | Seattle, WA
98101<br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#660000'>P: <a
href="tel:206.256.0800" target="_blank">206.256.0800</a> | F: <a
href="tel:206.256.0423" target="_blank">206.256.0423</a></span><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'> <br>
</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#660000'><a
href="mailto:lkeck@aeieng.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:#660000;
text-decoration:none'>lkeck@aeieng.com</span></a> | <b><a
href="http://www.aeieng.com/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#660000;
text-decoration:none'>www.aeieng.com</span></a></b></span><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users mailing list<br>
<a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a
href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: "Paul Diglio" <<a
href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>><br>
To: "Nick Caton" <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>>,
<<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 07:15:46 -0500<br>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] using IPLV in eQuest<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Nick:<br>
<br>
I agree with your analysis. A curve built using different kW/Ton for the
four different load ratios that are used in the IPLV calculation would be
sufficient.<br>
<br>
I would just be careful when creating a curve that uses different condenser
water supply temperatures. It is more of a design issue. There has
to be a reason why the condenser water temperature varies. It will effect
the lift and kW/Ton. For example, current chillers will tolerate a much
lower condenser water temperature. Does this mean that it is more
efficient to provide the lower condenser water temperature? Not
necessarily, since energy will be wasted running the cooling tower fans to
achieve the lower temperature and energy will be wasted for the hot-gas bypass
to bring the condenser pressure up.<br>
<br>
In my experience, the lower condenser water temperature is most often an issue
on chiller start-up in cold weather. Some chillers will surge until the
chiller warms the condenser water loop. Surging sounds like someone with
advanced COPD breathing. <br>
<br>
So, if Rohini's chillers are supplied with a nearly constant condenser water
temperature, the EIR f(PLR&Lift) would not be critical.<br>
<br>
Please see attached modeling data from Trane for a CVHE 450 ton chiller.
All the data to build the various curves is shown. Note the difference in
condenser bundle pressure drop for standard flow v. minimum flow. Much
energy can be saved with a variable condenser water pumping strategy. <br>
<br>
This data was used to calculate the loss of chiller efficiency due to reduced
condenser water flow. In this particular project, I had three existing
chillers. Total savings realized by the variable condenser water scenario
was 250,000 kWh/Year. The reduced chiller efficiency consumed 50,000 kWk
per year so the net energy savings was 200,000 kWh/Year. Notice that the
condenser water temperature varies in the data. That was based on the
maximum heat rejection of the towers during the cooling season with a minimum
of 65 degrees condenser water supply temperature. If I assumed a constant
78 degrees condenser water supply temperature the kW/Ton values would be much
different.<br>
<br>
It takes a little time to find the right person to provide this chiller data,
but it is well worth it.<br>
<br>
Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Nick Caton <<a
href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Diglio <<a href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net"
target="_blank">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>>; <a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Fri, February 25, 2011 4:38:43 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] using IPLV in eQuest</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks very much for the informed
response, Paul! </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>With all respect, I want to be sure
I’m picking up the right lessons here =):</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Accepting the arbitrary nature of IPLV
ratings, what I’ve proposed for Rohini’s case is to define a curve
that will utilize his model’s unique annual part-load profile (tossing
IPLV’s weightings out the window), and would isolate the effects of PLR
to make his equipment comparison.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Am I correctly understanding that any
comparative analysis that isolates only the effects of part-load in comparing
two chillers is pretty much pointless? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I am not trying to make a case that
lift, variable flows, and their effects on capacity and efficiency are not
important (and I have also experienced responses all over the map from
different manufacturers). I agree that at least considering all of these
in many cases is necessary when one wants to model accurate behavior,
particularly from a commissioning/servicing context. With all other
things being equal, I’m however proposing these factors shouldn’t
be critical if the specific goal is to determine <u>whether chiller A or
chiller B fits a model’s part load profile better</u>.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>So to clarify and make our bridges
meet: Is it critical that Rohini creates an EIR-fPLR&dT curve for his
analysis (between two screw chillers with everything else presumed identical),
or is it fair to say this may be overkill considering what he’s trying to
achieve?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I for one will continue the good fight
to obtain more solid input data for my curves, sometimes I have to settle for
“the best I can get” with the people I’m supposed to be
talking to, but your experiences are further motivation to try to find the
right people =)!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks again,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><b>Error! Filename not specified.</b></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct <a href="tel:913%20344.0036"
target="_blank">913 344.0036</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax <a href="tel:913%20345.0617"
target="_blank">913 345.0617</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>www.smithboucher.com</span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Paul
Diglio [mailto:<a href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 25, 2011 2:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] using IPLV in eQuest</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Nick:<br>
<br>
I come from a mechanical contracting and service background. Condenser water
temperature is a hotly debated item. Some manufacturers define a very
narrow range of acceptable condenser water temperature and others define a very
narrow range of the temperature difference between entering and leaving
condenser water temperature.<br>
<br>
During one investment-grade audit I performed recently, Trane told me that the
condenser water dt can be no <u>less</u> than 5 degrees for maximum efficiency
on the 650 ton CVHE chillers I was working with. The water temperature
could be anywhere to 50-80 degrees. This machine had hot-gas bypass to
keep the head pressure up.<br>
<br>
Other chillers that I have overhauled require a very narrow band of condenser
water temperature, such as 75-78 degrees supply temperature. So modeling
a wide condenser water range does not make much sense to me since it is not a
real world application. The chillers I have worked on either have a tower
bypass loop or a hot gas bypass to keep the condensing pressure up where it
belongs. Energy is wasted when too cold a condenser water temperature is
specified.<br>
<br>
Other manufacturers say the colder the better.<br>
<br>
Specifying variable primary chilled water flow and variable condenser water
flow has a large impact on chiller efficiency. I ask the manufacturers to
provide me the kW/Ton for minimum flow, standard flow and maximum flow for the
evaporator and condenser bundles. A chiller that has an kW/Ton of .56 at
AHRI conditions can often have a 1.3 kW/Ton at minimum condenser flow (3
gpm/ton) at 30% load.<br>
<br>
The IPLV is really a useless rating for a real world application since it
assumes a certain percentage load a certain percentage of the time. It
all depends on the design of the system and the load profile. It is a
good rating to compare various chillers if they conform to the load
profile. I see more chillers that run in the 40-60% range 90% of the time
than I see chillers that match the IPLV conditions.<br>
<br>
During my investment-grade reviews with our local utility, the lift of the
chiller is always an important consideration.<br>
<br>
There was an e-mail for someone, I believe York, that offered to model any
manufacturers chiller on this forum a few months ago. I have had good
luck getting the rep to provide the information that I requested as long as I
find the right person.<br>
<br>
Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Nick
Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Diglio <<a href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net"
target="_blank">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>>; <a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Fri, February 25, 2011 2:50:44 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] using IPLV in eQuest</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Paul, I may not have been crystal-clear,
but if someone is merely making a comparative analysis between two screw
chillers, aren’t the relative effects of varying lift between the two
chillers negligible? My general understanding is that lift is a more
critical variable when comparing VSD centrifugal chillers… This is
why I suggested a simpler EIR-fPLR curve would be sufficient in lieu of an
EIR-fPLR&dT – I was trying to simplify Rohini’s comparative
analysis.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I’d agree that an EIR-fPLR&dT
curve would be more precise and more appropriate if the goal is to better match
the chiller behavior (and creating custom CAP-FT and EIR-FT would be even
better), but I was thinking this would require an unnecessary amount of extra
work for Rohini’s comparative purpose.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>My “suggested information to
request” below for constructing EIR-fPLR&dT curves is based on my
past experience with limitations of my local manf. rep’s software –
they need to set certain items constant to get the numbers to
crunch… Have you had luck collecting PLR runs where the evaporator
and/or condenser temp was allowed to float? I’ve picked up through
the lists that a better way to skin the cat may be to approach the chiller
controls reps where they may exist, as they may have more flexible
software…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I throw this disclaimer out
sometimes: I certainly haven’t been doing this for decades!
If I’m misunderstanding something, I very much welcome corrections
;). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><b>Error! Filename not specified.</b></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct <a href="tel:913%20344.0036"
target="_blank">913 344.0036</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax <a href="tel:913%20345.0617"
target="_blank">913 345.0617</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com"
target="_blank">www.smithboucher.com</a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Paul
Diglio [mailto:<a href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 25, 2011 12:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton; James Waechter; <a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] using IPLV in eQuest</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Actually what everyone is calling dt is more
accurately referred to as lift. It is the difference between the
saturated evaporating temperature and the saturated condensing temperature,
which is different than the condenser water temperature and the evaporator
water temperature.<br>
<br>
A more accurate curve can be built if you have the chiller manufacturer model
both these variables for you, rather than leaving the evaporator water
temperature constant and just varying the condenser water temperature.
Any change in the evaporator pressure will effect the condensing pressure and
any change in the condensing pressure will effect the evaporator pressure.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Nick
Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> James Waechter <jamesw@McKinstry.com>; <a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Fri, February 25, 2011 1:21:42 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] using IPLV in eQuest</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>James et al,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Rohini will need to create performance
curves to make this particular comparison. Otherwise using the default
curves will result in identical part load performances.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The following is excerpted from the
following (short) recommended reading concerning what IPLV means: <a
href="http://ashrae-cfl.org/2010/03/understanding-iplvnplv/" target="_blank">http://ashrae-cfl.org/2010/03/understanding-iplvnplv/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'>IPLV (or NPLV) = 0.01A+0.42B+0.45C+0.12D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'>Where:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'>A = COP or EER @ 100% Load<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'>B = COP or EER @ 75% Load<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'>C = COP or EER @ 50% Load<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'>D = COP or EER @ 25% Load<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John is saying knowing only the IPLV and
the 100% load condition efficiency (variable ‘A,’ above) is not
enough information to extrapolate the IPLV curves to compare the two
chillers. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>For the exercise of comparing the two
non-centrifugal chillers of the same technology/type, I would just focus on
making a custom EIR-FPLR (not EIR-fPLR&dT) for each chiller, and use the
library CAP-FT AND EIR-FT curves. My understanding is the effects of
temperature on capacity and EIR outside of centrifugal VSD chillers is
negligible. NOTE: Whenever using any of the default library chiller
performance curves, that means you MUST normalize to and specify the chiller at
ARI conditions – those curves aren’t normalized to anything else.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>So! If you can find the IPLV A, B,
C and D values for both chillers’ curves, you could come up with your
EIR-FPLR curve coefficients (<u>curve type = quadratic or cubic</u>) using a
curve-fit in excel… or alternatively make eQuest figure the coefficients
by entering those points as raw data.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>You may more easily just make your own
curves, following John’s advice and getting part load unloading curves
(100%, 90%, 80%... etc) held at a constant chilled & condenser temperature
to match the ARI* conditions (85CWT if this is water cooled) at which
you’re specifying the chiller capacity/EIR. Again, you could either
go into excel, normalize the data (review DOE2 help entry for EIR-FPLR), make a
scatter chart, and get the coefficients using a curve fit… or enter the
data as raw points into eQuest and the coefficients will be figured by
eQuest… whatever makes more sense to you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'>For others and personal future reference…. If
you are looking to make an <u>EIR-fPLR&dT</u> curve (for centrifugal
chillers or otherwise): Ask your rep instead for multiple (minimum 3)
part load unloading runs, holding the delivered chilled water temp constant,
and vary the condenser water temperature incrementally for each run (i.e. 85,
75, 65). Choose a range of CWT’s that cover the anticipated range
to be encountered in the actual design. This will get you enough data to have
the minimum 3 delta-T’s represented in your part load data points to
build this curve correctly. You’ll be using eQuest
“raw-data” entry method to make it generate the coefficients.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>* Rather than ARI conditions (85F CWT),
you could be normalizing to Design condition EIR/CAP, provided you’re
making a full set of custom curves in the same fashion.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><b>Error! Filename not specified.</b></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct <a href="tel:913%20344.0036"
target="_blank">913 344.0036</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax <a href="tel:913%20345.0617"
target="_blank">913 345.0617</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com"
target="_blank">www.smithboucher.com</a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>James Waechter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 25, 2011 10:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] using IPLV in eQuest</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>John,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>If the only parameter Rohini enters into the program
is the full-load EIR – which he said is the same for both chillers
– how will eQuest know to bend the curves differently for the two chiller
options. It is my understanding that program would use the same chiller
efficiency curves for both machines even though their IPLVs are different.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>In order to overcome this issue, are you saying Rohini
should get chiller performance data from each of the manufacturers and enter
his own custom curves? I recall there was a discussion on that topic a
few months back.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>James Waechter Jr., P.E., CEM, LEED A.P.<br>
Energy Engineer – Rocky Mountain Region<br>
p <a href="tel:303%20215%204062" target="_blank">303 215 4062</a> | m <a
href="tel:727%20686%203248" target="_blank">727 686 3248</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>McKinstry</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>
Consulting | Construction | Energy | Facility Services</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="http://www.mckinstry.com/" target="_blank"><span
style='color:windowtext'>www.mckinstry.com</span></a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>John Aulbach<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 25, 2011 9:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> R B; eQUEST Users List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] using IPLV in eQuest</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Rohini:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Won't
happen. IPLV is a number which has one equation and 4 unknowns. Actually, three
unknowns as you know the 100% point. You need a manufacturer's curve run at 85F
constant condenser water temperature. Let eQuest do the curve bending after
that. ARI curve won't work right.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>John R. Aulbach, PE, CEM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Senior Energy Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#17365D'>
<hr size=2 width="30%" noshade style='color:#17365D' align=left>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-variant:small-caps;color:navy'>Partner</span><span
style='font-variant:small-caps;color:green'> </span><span style='font-variant:
small-caps;color:#006600'>Energy</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>1990 E. Grand Avenue, El Segundo, CA 90245<br>
W: <a href="tel:888-826-1216%2C%20X254" target="_blank">888-826-1216, X254</a>|
D: <a href="tel:310-765-7295" target="_blank">310-765-7295</a> | F: <a
href="tel:310-817-2745" target="_blank">310-817-2745</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a
href="http://www.ptrenergy.com/" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>www.ptrenergy.com</span></a><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><a href="mailto:%7C%20jaulbach@ptrenergy.com"
target="_blank">| jaulbach@ptrenergy.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> R B
<<a href="mailto:slv3sat@gmail.com" target="_blank">slv3sat@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> eQUEST Users List <<a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Fri, February 25, 2011 7:25:18 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] using IPLV in eQuest</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi
All, <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
would like to compare two screw chillers with same full load kW/ton and
different IPLV kW/ton. I am using the full load number for the EIR. Where can
the IPLV number be used? Is there some way to scale the performance curves to
reflect different IPLV's?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-Rohini<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>
This email is the property of McKinstry or one of its affiliates and may
contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended
recipient or have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender
immediately and delete this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or
distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>