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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I had a similar situation where I was
trying to use multiple L2LHPs to simulate a multistack system that used a geo
loop for heat rejection per the method that had been posted on the forum. The
problem that I found was that with the loop to loop chiller/heaters it is
really hard to determine how it is calculating the heating efficiency at part
load since there are only part load curves and EIR on the cooling side for that
type of equipment. Also, the heating performance seemed to get worse as the
ground source temperature increased (opposite of what you would expect). I
ended up using the regular heat pump system that has both heating and cooling
curves and EIR inputs. Two other things to check are using the equipment
controls/load management to force the heat pump(s) to meet the heating load
before the boiler and to normalize the part load performance curves to what conditions
the equipment was selected for (most likely not ARI for a geo loop). Hope that
helps. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Brendan Hall, M.Sc.<br>
Mechanical Engineer</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
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color:red'>karpinski<br>
</span></font><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>ENGINEERING</span></font><font size=2 color=navy
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<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">3135 Euclid
Avenue</st1:Street></st1:address><br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Cleveland</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">OH</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">44115</st1:PostalCode></st1:place></st1:address><br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:red'>P</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 216.391.3700</span></font><font
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font-family:"Times New Roman";color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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</span></font><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:red'>E</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><u><font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'><a href="mailto:bhall@karpinskieng.com">bhall@karpinskieng.com</a></span></font></u><font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:red'>W </span></font><u><font size=1 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><a
href="http://www.karpinskieng.com/" title="http://www.karpinskieng.com/">www.karpinskieng.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></u></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>TaylorRoberts@Eaton.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 06, 2011 2:13
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Equest-users] Question
on a L2LHP with a Lake/Well GLHX</span></font><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Hello
everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>I
am trying to model a HVAC system that is composed of a central geothermal
system that uses a heater/chiller with back up boilers to provide hot and
chilled water to AHU for a VAV air-side system. Following the advice I found on
the archives from the <st1:place w:st="on">Loop</st1:place> to Loop Heatpump in
eQuest discussion I modeled a system with a L2LHP that uses a lake/well loop
(see screen shot). I made sure to zero out the static head for the GLHX and
changed the max hot water temp in the hot water loop to 130F to be compatible
with a heatpump. I compared this system to a basic chiller/boiler VAV system to
see if it showed any signs of improvement and the results have been very
puzzling. The geothermal system is using slightly less energy to cool but
isn’t providing any heating to the system. Instead the boilers are
providing all of the heating. When I remove the boilers to make the L2LHP
provide all of the heating it is performing terribly using an enormous amount
of electricity to heat. Also, I assumed that there would be a pumping power
increase but the L2LHP is using about 3X the electricity as the boiler/chiller
system and this seems way too large. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Has
anyone had any luck modeling a system like this or has any ideas why my L2LHP
model is using more energy than a standard chiller/boiler system? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Taylor Roberts, EIT</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Energy Solutions Intern</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Energy Solutions Group</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>E M C Engineers, Inc.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Eaton's Electrical Services & Systems</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>970-208-7917</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>TaylorRoberts@Eaton.com</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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