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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Good
morning, all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Try
looking at it this way. Exhaust fans (separate fans or components of the
proposed HVAC unit) that operate continuously during occupied periods in
conjunction with the HVAC systems serving the adjacent areas should be included
in the Baseline system fan power calculated using Section G3.1.2.9. Exhaust
fans that operate intermittently during occupied periods should be considered
process loads and modeled with the same airflow, power, and schedule as the
proposed case fan. If the fan motor efficiency is regulated in Section 10 (1 HP
and larger) and the proposed design used higher efficiency motors, savings for
the improved efficiency may be claimed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hope
this helps!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cam S. Fitzgerald, PE, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:green'>Energy
Opportunities, LLC</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:green'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:green'>a 7group company</span><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:green'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>phone:
(717) 292-2636 x11</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>fax:
(717) 292-0585</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bishop,
Bill<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 20, 2011 11:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Diglio; M. Shields; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Fan Power<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>True,
makeup air can come from windows or infiltration, but it still constitutes a
load that is met by heating and cooling coils if there is a thermostat. Are you
going to model the baseline toilet-exhaust-only system and zone with those
coils to handle the loads? If yes, use the same G3.2.1.9 system type as the
rest of the project and be done with it. If no, you are either going to have a
problem with unmet heating/cooling hours, or you’re considering the zone unconditioned
and the toilet fan is a process load that should be modeled identically between
the baseline and proposed models.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Paul Diglio
[mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 20, 2011 11:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bishop, Bill; M. Shields; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Fan Power<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The makeup air can come from
operable windows or infiltration and does not necessarily need to be
conditioned.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>
Paul Diglio<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> "Bishop, Bill"
<wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com><br>
<b>To:</b> M. Shields <mshields@fstrategies.com>; Paul Diglio
<paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net>; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Fri, May 20, 2011 11:03:05 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Supply Fan Power</span><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Maybe this is the source of the
confusion. I <i>disagree</i> that toilet exhaust fans constitute independent
HVAC systems that have to modeled separately in the baseline. To me, toilet
exhaust, kitchen exhaust and clothes dryer exhaust are all components of the
system that heats, cools and ventilates the zone(s). The air handlers, heating
and cooling coils that serve these zones are designed to supply and condition
the ventilation air that is exhausted, regardless of whether or not the exhaust
is at the air handler or through a zonal exhaust fan. Yes, a toilet exhaust fan
can operate with the HVAC system off, but the makeup air has to come from
somewhere, and it needs to be heated/cooled (even if indirectly by mixing with
the room air). I mentioned previously that I usually omit exhaust fans in
baseline systems. Another reason I do this is because eQUEST zonal exhaust fans
cannot operate when the system fan is off.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>My personal interpretation of
G3.2.1.9 is that <i>if</i> you choose to model separate supply and exhaust fans
in the baseline system, the calculated baseline fan power is split up into
supply and exhaust components so that their total power equals the calculated
value. I do not think G3.2.1.9 requires you to model separate fans for any
reason. It only adds complexity and modeling effort, not baseline fan energy.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>M.
Shields<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 20, 2011 10:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Paul Diglio'; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Fan Power</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I agree the toilet exhaust
system would be independent, but I guess I am having trouble coming up with an
example of an exhaust system which is not independent other than an ERV which
seems to be covered under G3.1.2.10. Thus if everything other than ERVs
are independent, why does G3.1.2.9 specify exhaust as one of the systems to be
included in that calculation?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext'> Paul Diglio
[mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 20, 2011 10:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> M. Shields; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Fan Power</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Michael:<br>
<br>
Would not the toilet exhaust be an independent system? It does not return
air to the HVAC system and can operate with the HVAC system off.<br>
<br>
I am modeling a residential high rise and am modeling the kitchen exhaust hoods
as an independent system. In my case the toilet exhaust fans have been
eliminated and the toilet/apartment exhaust air is returned to an ERV.
Each apartment is being supplied with ventilation air from a DOAS. In my
case, I will model the toilet exhaust as part of the HVAC system.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Paul Diglio</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> M. Shields <mshields@fstrategies.com><br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Fri, May 20, 2011 10:25:43 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Fan Power</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks for all of the
comments. I think I may have figured out how the reviewer got confused.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>As part of my documentation I
provided a table which showed the supply and exhaust cfm, bhp, and kw as calculated
from G3.2.1.9 for the baseline building. I then showed the same for the
proposed building using the actual equipment specified. The building has
stacks of apartment units, each stack has an exhaust riser which has a
continuously running fan on the roof. I am interpreting everything
correctly now, the baseline building should only list the supply cfm, bhp, and
kw as calculated from G3.2.1.9 which includes the fan power from this exhaust
riser. The proposed building would then use the actual supply fan and
exhaust fans specified.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Does this seem like the correct
path? Alternatively the exhaust riser could be modeled separately in both
buildings using the proposed equipment as a process load.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bishop, Bill<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 20, 2011 9:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton; Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr.;
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Fan Power</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Michael,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’m confused by your LEED
reviewer’s comments. As Patrick mentioned, it would help to know what the
reviewer means by “independent fan systems”. I can think of only two situations
where you would need to model identical fan power in the baseline and proposed
models. One is if you have no heating and/or cooling system in the proposed
design, in which case the proposed system “shall be identical to the system
modeled in the baseline building design” per Table G3.1(10.). Since you mention
that you used the actual fan power in the proposed building, I’m assuming that
heating and cooling systems have been specified for your proposed design.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>The other situation is for process loads. If you have fan
power associated with non-HVAC systems, it should be treated as a process load
and modeled identically between the baseline and proposed designs. An example
of this that has been discussed on this forum previously is parking garage
exhaust.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I rarely model anything but
supply fans in the baseline model unless there are process loads. I see no
point in modeling return, exhaust or relief fans. The fan power calculated in
G3.1.2.9 is for the sum of supply, return, exhaust and relief fans. The
baseline systems have to move the same amount of air regardless of the
combination of fan types, and the fan power is based on, and entered as,
kW/cfm, so you will end up with the same fan energy in the baseline model
regardless of how many fans you model for each baseline system.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I don’t know what the reviewer
is trying to say with their comment about system types 1 through 8 and Table
G3.1.1A.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><img width=496 height=123
id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC16E1.9DF20B80"
alt="Signature in jpg form"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nick Caton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 20, 2011 9:50 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr.; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Fan Power</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Color me concerned… This
reviewer may have an argument but I can’t reason it. I think he/she may
be leading us off the path regarding what the baseline fan power calculations
apply to…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>You’ve got exhaust fans in a
proposed model matching the construction documents. Sounds okay so
far… Going through this line by line:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>I would start with directing the reviewer to
the glossary. The entry for “<i>HVAC system</i>” reads: the equipment,
distribution systems, and terminals that provide, either collectively or
individually, the processes of heating, ventilation, or air conditioning to a
building or portion of a building.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:1.0in'>o<span style='font-size:
7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Clearly, an exhaust fan providing ventilation to a
building independent of other systems is an HVAC system. The reviewer’s
phrasing of “..independent fan systems of the HVAC systems” is a
misinterpretation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:
"Courier New";color:#1F497D'>o</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Building on the understanding that an independent exhaust
system is a complete HVAC system, Table G3.1.10.a is as far as you need to go
for support of following the construction documents.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’d again reject the reviewers’ choice of
words: Exhaust fans are not “independent fans of the HVAC systems.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>
</span>Sections G3.1.2.8 and G3.1.2.9 agreeably apply only to baseline
systems. They have no bearing on the topic at hand (what goes in the
proposed model), unless your baseline fan capacities/efficiency calcs didn’t
follow the instructions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'>·</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>
</span><span style='color:#1F497D'>The request to document the independent fan
systems’ energies separately is not new. May as well do that after all’s
said and done.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>That’s my initial take.
Thoughts, anyone?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37
id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.jpg@01CC16E1.9DF20B80"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith &
Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west
valley parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913
344.0036</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913
345.0617</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a
href="http://www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank">www.smithboucher.com</a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Patrick
J. O'Leary, Jr.<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 20, 2011 8:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Fan Power</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>it reads to me that your initial interpretation is what the
reviewer is asking for. on the other hand the question is what is
constituting an "independent" exhaust fan here. if the exhaust
fan is part of the balance of the supply/return/exhaust system it probably
should be modeled as such as it is not really different than having a return
fan installed in the ductwork somewhere and not in a unit itself. per hte
90.1 user's manual (page g-28 in 2004), "System fan electrical power for
supply, return, exhaust and relief fans is calculated based on the following
formula. The power from this formula includes supply, return, relief, and
exhaust fans ..." if the exhaust fan is not part of the
designed system supply/return/exhaust then i would think your initial interpretation
of what the reviewer is asking is correct. whichever situation applies
make sure the response documents the purpose of the exhaust fans and how 90.1
applies (including section/user manual references).<br>
<br>
On 5/20/11 6:15 AM, M. Shields wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The exact comment is this:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>“The fan power spreadsheet for
the Baseline and Proposed models indicate that the fan power of the exhaust
fans have not been modeled identically in each model. All independent fan
systems of the HVAC systems in the actual design must be modeled identically
between the Proposed and Baseline models at actual equipment capacities (fan
volume and fan power) as required by Table G3.1.10 in the Proposed building
column, since the fan design air flow rates and fan power per Sections G3.1.2.8
and G3.1.2.9, respectively, only applies to system types 1 through 8 in Table
G3.1.1A. If appealing this credit, revise the Proposed and Baseline models so
all independent fan systems of the HVAC systems are modeled identically between
the Proposed and Baseline models. In addition, separate the energy consumption
and peak demand energy for independent fans in Table 1.8.1 and Table 1.8.2 of
the template and provide revised SV-A reports for each model reflecting the
changes.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I initially interpreted this to
be that for exhaust systems the bhp/kw needs to be identical in both buildings
and based on the specified equipment from the mechanical designer, however, my
supply fan energy was Ok. After reading the comment and Appendix G I am
not unsure if I also need to specify the fan power to be the same for both
models, ie use table G3.1.2.9 to calculate fan power for both instead of just
the baseline.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr.<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 20, 2011 8:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Fan Power</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>from your wording of "independent" it sounds like
you may have an application where you have a unit in the proposed building that
is required but not provided in the design? or something similar.
is this the case? if a unit is required in the proposed per the
requirement all spaces be heated/cooled (per the definitions) they are required
to be the same as the units in the baseline building. if this is not the
case if you post the exact comment it may shed some light on the subject.
otherwise i would argue the comment is in error - if all of your zones are
served by units in the proposed and you have matching units in the baseline
(regardless of system types) then your approach would be correct. <br>
<br>
On 5/20/11 5:31 AM, M. Shields wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Good Morning All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I recently received comments back from LEED and one of them
was about my fan power. In the submission I calculated all of my fan
power using G3.1.2.9 for the baseline building, and I used the actual fan power
in the proposed building. The reviewer has commented that all independent
fan systems have to be modeled identically in both the baseline and the
proposed building. The supply fans use very high efficiency motors, and
as such are substantially more efficient than the calculation that G3.1.2.9
provides. Is there no way to take credit for using high efficiency supply
fans?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>____________________________<br>
Michael Shields</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Email:
<a href="mailto:mshields@fstrategies.com" target="_blank">mshields@fstrategies.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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