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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Color me concerned… This
reviewer may have an argument but I can’t reason it. I think he/she
may be leading us off the path regarding what the baseline fan power calculations
apply to…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>You’ve got exhaust fans in
a proposed model matching the construction documents. Sounds okay so far…
Going through this line by line:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>I would start with
directing the reviewer to the glossary. The entry for “<i>HVAC
system</i>” reads: the equipment, distribution systems, and terminals
that provide, either collectively or individually, the processes of heating,
ventilation, or air conditioning to a building or portion of a building.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;
mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New";
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Clearly, an exhaust
fan providing ventilation to a building independent of other systems is an HVAC
system. The reviewer’s phrasing of “..independent fan systems
of the HVAC systems” is a misinterpretation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;
mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New";
color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Building on the
understanding that an independent exhaust system is a complete HVAC system,
Table G3.1.10.a is as far as you need to go for support of following the
construction documents.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’d again
reject the reviewers’ choice of words: Exhaust fans are not “independent
fans of the HVAC systems.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>Sections G3.1.2.8
and G3.1.2.9 agreeably apply only to baseline systems. They have no
bearing on the topic at hand (what goes in the proposed model), unless your
baseline fan capacities/efficiency calcs didn’t follow the instructions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='color:#1F497D'>The request to
document the independent fan systems’ energies separately is not
new. May as well do that after all’s said and done.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>That’s my initial
take. Thoughts, anyone?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37
id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC16C9.D58DCF60"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith &
Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west
valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913
344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913
345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Patrick
J. O'Leary, Jr.<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 20, 2011 8:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Fan Power<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>it reads to me that your initial interpretation is what the
reviewer is asking for. on the other hand the question is what is
constituting an "independent" exhaust fan here. if the exhaust
fan is part of the balance of the supply/return/exhaust system it probably
should be modeled as such as it is not really different than having a return
fan installed in the ductwork somewhere and not in a unit itself. per hte
90.1 user's manual (page g-28 in 2004), "System fan electrical power for
supply, return, exhaust and relief fans is calculated based on the following
formula. The power from this formula includes supply, return, relief, and
exhaust fans ..." if the exhaust fan is not part of the
designed system supply/return/exhaust then i would think your initial
interpretation of what the reviewer is asking is correct. whichever
situation applies make sure the response documents the purpose of the exhaust
fans and how 90.1 applies (including section/user manual references).<br>
<br>
On 5/20/11 6:15 AM, M. Shields wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The exact comment is this:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>“The fan power spreadsheet
for the Baseline and Proposed models indicate that the fan power of the exhaust
fans have not been modeled identically in each model. All independent fan
systems of the HVAC systems in the actual design must be modeled identically
between the Proposed and Baseline models at actual equipment capacities (fan
volume and fan power) as required by Table G3.1.10 in the Proposed building
column, since the fan design air flow rates and fan power per Sections G3.1.2.8
and G3.1.2.9, respectively, only applies to system types 1 through 8 in Table
G3.1.1A. If appealing this credit, revise the Proposed and Baseline models so
all independent fan systems of the HVAC systems are modeled identically between
the Proposed and Baseline models. In addition, separate the energy consumption
and peak demand energy for independent fans in Table 1.8.1 and Table 1.8.2 of
the template and provide revised SV-A reports for each model reflecting the
changes.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I initially interpreted this to
be that for exhaust systems the bhp/kw needs to be identical in both buildings
and based on the specified equipment from the mechanical designer, however, my
supply fan energy was Ok. After reading the comment and Appendix G I am
not unsure if I also need to specify the fan power to be the same for both
models, ie use table G3.1.2.9 to calculate fan power for both instead of just
the baseline.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr.<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 20, 2011 8:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Fan Power</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>from your wording of "independent" it sounds like
you may have an application where you have a unit in the proposed building that
is required but not provided in the design? or something similar.
is this the case? if a unit is required in the proposed per the
requirement all spaces be heated/cooled (per the definitions) they are required
to be the same as the units in the baseline building. if this is not the
case if you post the exact comment it may shed some light on the subject.
otherwise i would argue the comment is in error - if all of your zones are
served by units in the proposed and you have matching units in the baseline
(regardless of system types) then your approach would be correct. <br>
<br>
On 5/20/11 5:31 AM, M. Shields wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Good Morning All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I recently received comments back from LEED and one of them
was about my fan power. In the submission I calculated all of my fan
power using G3.1.2.9 for the baseline building, and I used the actual fan power
in the proposed building. The reviewer has commented that all independent
fan systems have to be modeled identically in both the baseline and the
proposed building. The supply fans use very high efficiency motors, and
as such are substantially more efficient than the calculation that G3.1.2.9
provides. Is there no way to take credit for using high efficiency supply
fans?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua","serif"'>____________________________<br>
Michael Shields</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua","serif"'>Email:
<a href="mailto:mshields@fstrategies.com">mshields@fstrategies.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Equest-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
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