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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi
Jeff!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It
sounds like it’s simply a quantity of systems issue then. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>90.1
& LEED reviewers would have you use one system per “thermal block”
for packaged baseline systems (#1-4). I like Bill’s clarification,
and agree “thermal block” (90.1’s term) is too fuzzy in the
context of an eQuest project, so I’ll continue using eQuest terminology.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Re-worded
specifically for eQuest: I’d generally expect each baseline system
to have either a single zone, or a “floor-level” zone & its
corresponding plenum zone, if I were looking over your shoulder at the HVAC
component tree. You probably shouldn’t have any more zones than
that grouped under any one baseline system. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The
SV-A reports list the zones under each system – same as the component
tree under the HVAC tab. Scan through those listings, and I expect you’ll
see what triggered this comment from your reviewer, if it isn’t already apparent
;). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img
width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image002.jpg@01CC0A4E.4964A040" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a
href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span
style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff
Ross-Bain<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 04, 2011 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Bishop, Bill'; 'Paul Diglio'; 'equest-users'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Thermal Blocks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Here is the
comment – it could be that I drew a blank - the comments so far have
helped to clear up the issue. I initially interpreted the comment to imply a
separate shell for each thermal block. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>According
to the SV-A report, the Baseline Case was not modeled with a separate PSZ-AC
serving each thermal block as requested.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>However, I do
appreciate the comments regarding thermal blocks and they have been very
helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Thanks for the
response,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#006E78'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";
color:#006E78'>Jeffrey G Ross-Bain, PE, LEED AP, BEMP</span></b><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";
color:#535053'>404-228-2893 office </span></b><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";
color:#535053'>404-408-2577 mobile<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";
color:#006E78'>www.rbgb.com</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Bishop, Bill
[mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 04, 2011 11:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Diglio; Jeff Ross-Bain; equest-users<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Thermal Blocks</span><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’m
also curious to hear Jeff’s LEED reviewer interpretation of thermal
blocks. I’ll add some general comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I
believe it is incorrect use of terminology to talk about “multiple zones
per thermal block” in eQUEST.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The
words <i>space </i>and <i>zone </i>both have specific meanings in eQUEST. For
each space, there is a single corresponding zone.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Multiple
zones can be applied to a single system. (Unfortunately, multiple systems
cannot be applied to a single zone, but that is another thread.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The
term <i>thermal block</i> does not have a precise meaning in eQUEST, but I
would not describe the group of zones assigned to a single system as a thermal
block.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If
you wanted to try to model the exact intent of a proposed design, you would
model each thermally-unique area as its own space/zone. A generalization is
that a zone is an area served by a single thermostat.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>To
simplify a model, similar zones can be combined into thermal blocks per the
guidelines in ASHRAE Standard 90.1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Modelers
have to make judgments calls on if/how to combine zones into thermal blocks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In
eQUEST, the decision to combine zones into thermal blocks really should be done
at the wizard input level, when the zones are defined. You combine multiple
zones per the design intent into a single zone definition for simulation
purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You
don’t have multiple zones in a thermal block. Each thermal block is
defined/modeled as a single eQUEST zone.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You
could still assign multiple thermal blocks/zones to a single system, but I
would be wary of over-simplifying a proposed design.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img
border=0 width=496 height=123 id="Picture_x005f_x0020_1"
src="cid:image003.jpg@01CC0A4E.4964A040" alt="Signature in jpg form"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Diglio<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 04, 2011 9:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeff Ross-Bain; equest-users<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Thermal Blocks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Jeff:<br>
<br>
ASHRAE 90.1 allow spaces of similar thermal characteristics to be combined in
thermal blocks. I do not include what you call support spaces because the
load and occupancy is much different than, say a classroom. I would
define the corridor as a separate zone within the thermal block but served by
the same HVAC system. This allows you to have a different set-point,
airflow, occupancy and schedules for the corridor.<br>
<br>
You do not have to define a separate shell for each block, you can define the
block by custom zones in the wizard.<br>
<br>
I divide up a thermal block into as many reasonable zones as possible.
This allows me to find out which area of the thermal block is causing any unmet
heating or cooling hours. It also allows me to change the HVAC system
control zone to that zone which is the hardest to satisfy in the summer and winter.
These zones can be served by a single HVAC system.<br>
<br>
For a proposed model that needs to conform to an actual design, defining
multiple zones per thermal block allows you to balance the airflow to zones
that have unmet hours without increasing the overall airflow of the HVAC
system. I define the zonal airflow in the Zone tab. I reduce the
airflow to the zones without any unmet hours and increase the airflow to those
zones that have unmet hours. I do not define the total fan CFM in the
Airside Systems tab.<br>
<br>
What were the comments from the LEED reviewer?<br>
<br>
Paul Diglio<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Jeff Ross-Bain <jeff@rbgb.com><br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users <equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wed, May 4, 2011 9:05:15 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Thermal Blocks</span><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Hi All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Are there any
additional discussions out there regarding thermal blocks besides what is in
ASHRAE Standard 90.1 and the User’s Guide? I have received comments back
from a LEED reviewer that seems to reflect an interpretation of that concept
which I have not seen before.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>In a nutshell,
does each thermal block require a separate shell with individual HVAC system? I
understand the concept of having individual thermal blocks or combining these
if they are similar space use categories. I am assuming then that the similar
space use categories (say a college classroom building) can also include
support spaces such as corridors, storage spaces, faculty offices, etc. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>So if several
thermal blocks are combined into one, can they not be served by a single,
similar type of HVAC system?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I hope that I have
made myself clear and many thanks for your thoughts and comments.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#006E78'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";
color:#006E78'>Jeffrey G Ross-Bain, PE, LEED AP, BEMP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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color:#535053'>404-228-2893 office </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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color:#006E78'><a href="http://www.rbgb.com" target="_blank">www.rbgb.com</a></span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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