<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:10pt">Mizra:<br><br>Thank you for the time it took you to send the results of your study to the forum. Some of the top simulation firms in my area use Energy Plus and I was confused when other people claimed a higher discrepancy rate than you modeled.<br><br>Paul Diglio<br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 10pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Mirza Sajjal <Mirza.Sajjal@BuroHappold.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Pasha Korber-Gonzalez <pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com>; deepika khowal <deepika.khowal@gmail.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org; energyplus_support <EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thu, April 28, 2011 5:55:09 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users] equest and energy plus outputs<br></font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This was a little study I did out of curiosity last year, and
the results between eQUEST (v3.63) and EnergyPlus (v4.0) matched quite well (~1.4%
difference). All the schedules, zone areas, surface areas were exactly the same
(I checked), but I also chose a simple system; PTAC units for the comparison. I
believe when I was doing this I had checked the performance curves that were
being used in EnergyPlus and they matched the eQUEST curves. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I assume the results will begin to differ when the systems
become more complicated, but even then I believe if both models are calibrated
to match as much as possible the results shouldn’t vary significantly
(assuming all systems are native to the programs and we’re not creating work-arounds
i.e. DOAS in eQUEST using dummy zones or the like).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">(FYI, the geometry was ported over to EnergyPlus through a tool
I wrote using Excel and VBA, but it’s a messy process)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Following are some of the results and graphical outputs:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img id="Picture_x0020_39" src="cid:4.3707012303@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com" width="494" height="128"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img id="Picture_x0020_46" src="cid:5.3707012303@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com" width="291" height="226"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img id="Picture_x0020_53" src="cid:6.3707012303@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com" width="479" height="278"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img id="Picture_x0020_60" src="cid:7.3707012303@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com" width="542" height="271"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img id="Picture_x0020_74" src="cid:8.3707012303@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com" width="590" height="566"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img id="Picture_x0020_67" src="cid:9.3707012303@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com" width="600" height="706"></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: black;" lang="EN-GB">____________________</span></b><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: black;" lang="EN-GB"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: black;" lang="EN-GB">Mirza Sajjal</span></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: black;" lang="EN-GB"><br>
Engineer</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: black;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: black;" lang="EN-GB">Buro Happold<br>
100 Broadway<br>
New York, NY 10005</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: black;" lang="EN-GB">Tel: +1 212 334 2025</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: black;" lang="EN-GB">Direct: +1 212 616 0380</span></p>
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</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "sans-serif";"> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Pasha
Korber-Gonzalez<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 28, 2011 4:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> deepika khowal<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org; energyplus_support<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] equest and energy plus outputs</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As I understand it--Energy+ is free-ware in it's raw
form. I guess I was wrong to make an assumption that Deepika
is using it without an interface. If this is not the case it
might explain such a variance in results. When I model
in DOE-2 raw form---it is so much harder for me to manage my data and inputs in
my head and such----I was not born to be a programmer, and it gives me
nightmares from struggling to pass FORTRAN so many years ago...ugh.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Therefore, I haven't looked at E+ myself for a very long
time and purchasing or putting out the cost for the user-interface programs is
not as desireable as using the eQuest free-ware. or the future CANQuest
free-ware (future SI version).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">BUT-- I know that E+ is supposed to have some great
capabilities in which we are limited with DOE-2 (to an
extent.) Has anyone else had the time and desire to compare
these program engines more closely recently? Also--why is it so
difficult to "match" systems in eQuest and E+....forgive my
blase'-ness, but isn't a pkgd system a pkgd system...a pkgd system??? :)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pasha </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:39 AM, deepika khowal <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:deepika.khowal@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:deepika.khowal@gmail.com">deepika.khowal@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So based on my analysis, there is a difference of about 10%
in results of equest and E+. I would believe that because there are certain
parameters which are very difficult to match. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">this seems reasonable to me. </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:09 AM, John Aulbach <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com">jra_sac@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am sure EnergyPlus is a fine and well thought out program
(consider the sources and fine people involved). However, since I am in
production mode (and don't have time to create a model in two different
programs-who pays for THAT), I chose to migrate to eQuest after DOE-2.1 A, B,
C, D, and E. There are plenty of resources to ask questions of, the program
started out in Windows (didn't need "add ons"), and gives me a 3-D
rendering on the building immediately.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I dealt with 20 years of "raw" DOE-2, where I
didn't know what my building really looked like (until Joe Huang came along
with BDL Draw..). So I would need at age (you guess..) to not relearn an
entirely new program and stick with what I had learned over the past 25+ years.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a rel="nofollow" name="12f9d3273db3644d_12f9cdf9b04dbece__MailA"><span style="font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">John R. Aulbach, PE,
CEM</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Senior
Energy Engineer</span></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);">
<hr style="color: rgb(23, 54, 93);" align="left" width="30%" noshade="noshade" size="2">
</span></div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family: "sans-serif"; font-variant: small-caps; color: navy;">Partner</span></b><b><span style="font-family: "sans-serif"; font-variant: small-caps; color: green;">
</span></b><b><span style="font-family: "sans-serif"; font-variant: small-caps; color: rgb(0, 102, 0);">Energy</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">1990
E. Grand Avenue, El Segundo, CA 90245<br>
W: <a rel="nofollow">888-826-1216</a>, X254| D: <a rel="nofollow">310-765-7295</a> | F: <a rel="nofollow">310-817-2745</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.ptrenergy.com/"><span style="font-family: "sans-serif";">www.ptrenergy.com</span></a><span style="font-family: "sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:%7C%20jaulbach@ptrenergy.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:%7C%20jaulbach@ptrenergy.com"><span style="font-family: "sans-serif";">| jaulbach@ptrenergy.com</span></a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "sans-serif";">
<hr align="center" width="100%" size="1">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "sans-serif";"> deepika khowal <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:deepika.khowal@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:deepika.khowal@gmail.com">deepika.khowal@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Diglio <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>;
energyplus_support <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com">EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thu, April 28, 2011 8:56:34 AM </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "sans-serif";"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] equest and energy plus outputs</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
As Joe and others mentioned, its really difficult to create all parameters same
in both softwares. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am still working on it .</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For ex, which system should I use in equest as equivalent to
unitary system in E+?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I understand its difficult to match every input and hence,
getting same results is very tricky.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks all for their inputs</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Paul Diglio <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I thought E+ is a free
program? I would be interested to hear from anyone who has used Google
SketchUp and the Open Studio Plug-in to generate a 3D view in E+.<br>
<br>
I would like to hear more about the discrepancies between eQuest and E+ from
those who use both programs.<br>
<br>
Paul Diglio</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "sans-serif";">
<hr align="center" width="100%" size="1">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "sans-serif";"> Pasha
Korber-Gonzalez <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com">pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> deepika khowal <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:deepika.khowal@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:deepika.khowal@gmail.com">deepika.khowal@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> energyplus_support <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com">EnergyPlus_Support@yahoogroups.com</a>>;
<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thu, April 28, 2011 1:27:44 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] equest and energy plus outputs</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hmmm- an energy plus model showed 50% less energy use (EUI)
than eQuest? Did you use the same weather files? (i.e.
convert the EPW you used in E+ to .bin and use the same weather file in
eQuest?)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If this is truly the case, this is unsettling as a
simulator. Wouldn't it be safer for our clients to error on the
conservative side and give the eQuest results instead of the E+ results?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Also--if this is the case, then what is the market advantage
to spending thousands of dollars on E+ software rather than use the FREE-ware
eQuest program??</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'd appreciate any commentary to help me "see the
light" of this topic. And if Deepika is willing to share a visual of
his energy results output, I'm super curious to see what it is showing...</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Good question/good info...thanks,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pasha</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Korber Energy Consultants</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 7:11 PM, deepika khowal <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:deepika.khowal@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:deepika.khowal@gmail.com">deepika.khowal@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks Joe </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Even I realized the same thing. the total energy
use in Energy plus was almost 50% less than equest.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If this is the case, who would you know that you model is
working fine? </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Joe Huang <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I was involved in a two year project 2005-2007 to convert
the Calif. Energy Commission's Title-24 certification suite of building tests
from DOE-2.1E to EnergyPlus. There are some areas where it's difficult to
get comparable inputs due to differences or limitations in the models. The
differences between the two programs varied a lot depending on the building,
weather, and HVAC system. For the CEC certification suite of 160 runs, cooling
results were more consistent, within 10% in most cases, with EnergyPlus almost
always on the high side; for heating, the differences were much greater,
sometimes with EnergyPlus being 40-60% lower than DOE-2.1E. I have a
120-page report on this comparison, but haven't bothered to put it on the Web.<br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<br>
Joe Huang<br>
White Box Technologies, Inc.<br>
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D<br>
Moraga CA 94556<br>
<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><br>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com/">www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><br>
(o) (925)388-0265<br>
(c) (510)928-2683<br>
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deepika khowal wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">HI All<br>
I am trying to create same model in equest and energy plus to see whether i see
same results and just to validate my simulation files.<br>
has anyone done this before?<br>
I would like to know what is the % difference in both software outputs?<br>
Thanks<br>
Deepika</p>
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