<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>According to Table 3 the proposed system changes to 4-pipe CV AHU for a System 3 baseline if the project has both district heating and cooling, w<span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.289062); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.222656); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.222656); ">hich would not work w/ taking credit for the downstream HVAC strategies in the proposed building.</span></div><div><br><br><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.285156); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.21875); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.21875);"><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.289062); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.222656); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.222656); ">Arpan Bakshi, LEED AP BD+C</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.285156); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.21875); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.21875);">YRG sustainability</span></div></div><div><br>On Apr 22, 2011, at 6:30 PM, Kelsey VanTassel <<a href="mailto:KVanTassel@sustaineng.com">KVanTassel@sustaineng.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I don’t understand. Why can’t you follow Option 1?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Without DES, your baseline system would normally be System 3—PSZ w/furnace and DX, right? Since your proposed design uses district heating and cooling, the baseline System 3 is changed to 4-pipe CV AHU. The DES procedure does not change your proposed systems.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Kelsey Van Tassel</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#000066"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Mechanical Engineer | <a href="mailto:kvantassel@sustaineng.com"><span style="color:blue">kvantassel@sustaineng.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#000066"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">608.836.4488 ext. 20 | Fax: 608.836.4477</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#000066"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Sustainable Engineering Group</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#000066"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">901 Deming Way, Suite 201</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Madison, WI 53717<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="http://www.sustaineng.com/"><span style="color:blue">www.sustaineng.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#000066"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Arpan Bakshi<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 22, 2011 4:01 PM<br><b>To:</b> equest-users<br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] The DES Dilemma<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">PROJECT BACKGROUND</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Building Area</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>Less than 25,000 SF<br><br><b>Proposed Design</b></span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>TDV, DOAS, Supplemental Radiant Heating/Cooling<br><br><b>Heating and Cooling Generation</b></span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>University District Heating and Cooling<br><br><b><br></b>THE DES DILEMMA</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br>Reference – Treatment of District or Campus Thermal Energy in LEED V2 and LEED 2009 – Design & Construction<br><br><br><b>Option 1 (Building stand-alone scenario)<br></b><br>The downstream equipment of both baseline and proposed models cannot be easily isolated by tying chilled and heating hot water loops to meters since the baseline building is System 3, and does not use water-side systems.</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Neither can proposed model systems be replaced by “4-pipe CV AHU” per DES Table 3 (is that a typo?) since the downstream radiant systems need a water-side source of heating and cooling in the model.</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br><br><br><b>Option 2 (Model for Aggregate Building / DES Scenario)</b></span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br><br>This option has a points floor of 6 for LEED NC v2009. We do not anticipate a maximum of 1-3 points due to envelope design inefficiencies. Therefore this project would not qualify for Option 2.</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br><br>ANY THOUGHTS?</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br><br>I’m tempted to model System 7 heating and cooling plants for both baseline and proposed models and call it even, cost-neutral. What would you suggest?</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">-- </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Arpan Bakshi</span></b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">LEED AP BD+C<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></body></html>