<DIV> i have known setting "dummy" space. and can you explain this "</DIV>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">You are losing mixed air at the outdoor air rate to exfiltration or adjacent spaces. I don¡¯t think you can model this aspect with eQuest, eQuest will do what it does here. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>"clealy for me . i am sorry i can't understand well. </DIV>
<DIV> the process of DOAS is From W to S, which handled by AHU. and i don' t want outdoor air flow through FCU. becase outdoor air needn't be processed , and it will lead to increse of fan energy. if equest do not do it as my thought ,then any good ways can reduce the increase of fan energy?<BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR>At 2011-04-14 23:35:44£¬"Joe Fleming" <joe@thespinnakergroupinc.com> wrote:<BR>
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<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">As Arpan stated, we are assuming you know how to set-up the ¡°dummy¡± space and zone. Also, if you aren¡¯t aware, you cannot assign two (2) systems to a single (1) zone.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">With the information you have provided below it appears that the DOAS is adding some load to the FCU and handling some load itself. Point ¡°S¡± is warmer than the room set-point ¡°N¡±. If this is the case then the leaving air conditions of your DOAS in eQuest should match the leaving air conditions of your design DOAS. If the DOAS is delivering 78 degF air at 50% rh in the design, then you should set your DOAS up in eQuest with those leaving air conditions. Your FCUs will receive air at those conditions at the quantity specified in your OA input. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">You are losing mixed air at the outdoor air rate to exfiltration or adjacent spaces. I don¡¯t think you can model this aspect with eQuest, eQuest will do what it does here. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">The difference in airflows and leaving air conditions though the FCUs in the design and in the eQuest model will be the outdoor air rate. i.e. an FCU in the engineered design has 2000 cfm delivered at point ¡°L¡± and the zone it serves has 500 CFM delivered to it from the DOAS at point ¡°S¡±, your FCU in eQuest will have 2500 cfm delivered to the zone at mixed air conditions or point ¡°O¡±.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">One more important item is, what is the process your DOAS goes through? Is it simply using an ERV to remove some enthalpy (db and wb) from the outdoor air? Or is it bringing the air to its dewpoint and then reheating it before delivery to the space? Sorry that I am not able to gather this from your chart.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #74bd4b; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-language: EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #74bd4b; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-language: EN-US">Joe Fleming, E.I., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> tiejun hu [mailto:<A href="mailto:hutiejun1223@126.com">hutiejun1223@126.com</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:02 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Joe Fleming<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'equest-users'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:RE: RE: [Equest-users] FC+DOAS<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></P>
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<P class="MsoNormal">this is a phychrometric chart, y axes is "enthalpy" <SPAN lang="ZH-CN">£»</SPAN>x axes has 145 ¡ãangle with the y axis <SPAN lang="ZH-CN">£¬</SPAN>stand for "humidity". N stand for indoor Indoor State point; W stand for outdoor state point; S stand for state point which belong to outdoor air processed by DOAS. L stand for state point processed by FCU.; O stand for mix point between S and L.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class="MsoNormal"> S' enthalpy value = N' enthalpy value<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class="MsoNormal">At 2011-04-14 22:12:25<SPAN lang="ZH-CN">£¬</SPAN>"Joe Fleming" <<A href="mailto:joe@thespinnakergroupinc.com">joe@thespinnakergroupinc.com</A>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Regarding the fan power. If we assume that both fans and fan motors have the same efficiency and the units are constant volume, then you will adjust the static pressure of your fan coil units by the current flow over the new flow when you add the outside air. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">i.e. if you have two FCU¡¯s current supplying 2000 cfm and you have a 1000 cfm outside air unit delivering 500 cfm to each FCU, then your new FCU supply air rate will be 2500 cfm. You will build your DOAS as is designed and you will bump up your FCU airflow quantity to the total of the design and the DOAS supply to that space/zone/system. You will then reduce your static pressure for the FCU by 2000/2500 or 80% of what it is designed at, if the design total static is 4 inches then your new static will be 3.2 inches. This will eliminate any increase in fan power that you may see to the increased flow. (If you have ten FCUs at 2000 cfm and a DOAS at 2000 cfm, your numbers with the DOAS would be, DOAS as designed, 2200 cfm for each FCU, and a new total static pressure at 2000/2200 of design or 90.9% of design static).</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">As for the process, you say isenthalpic, so to me that means that the air is delivered off of the evaporator coil after the refrigerant goes through an expansion valve? </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Or could you please tell us what N, L, O, S, and W stand for, and what the axes of this chart are, (temperature and entropy?) It doesn¡¯t look like a psychrometric chart.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #74bd4b; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-language: EN-US"> </SPAN></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #74bd4b; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-language: EN-US">Joe Fleming, E.I., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP</SPAN></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> tiejun hu [mailto:<A href="mailto:hutiejun1223@126.com">hutiejun1223@126.com</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:40 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Joe Fleming<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'equest-users'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:RE: [Equest-users] FC+DOAS</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
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<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"><BR>At 2011-04-14 21:03:47<SPAN lang="ZH-CN">£¬</SPAN>"Joe Fleming" <<A href="mailto:joe@thespinnakergroupinc.com">joe@thespinnakergroupinc.com</A>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
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<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Search DOAS in the user archives and you will find a <B>bunch</B> of discussions on this topic.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">First you need to be in detailed mode, for some reason the DOE engine (maybe just eQuest), doesn¡¯t have the skills to make a dedicated outdoor air system as a drop down selection. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Next, what is the supply air temperature entering the zones from the DOAS? Cold? Room temperature? Hot?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">What is the process that the DOAS goes through to get the leaving air temperature at set-point?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Typically, you need to create a ¡°dummy space¡± and assign it to a ¡°dummy zone¡± then assign your first system to this zone. If you already created systems you can always open your .inp file and cut and paste the DOAS to the top of the systems list so that it will become your first system. Go ahead and assign all of the outside air to your DOAS ¡°dummy zone¡± and then choose outside air from system for all of the systems that this DOAS serves. It will only be able to find OA from systems above it on the component tree, so make sure your DOAS is at the top.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #74bd4b; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-language: EN-US"> </SPAN></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #74bd4b; FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-language: EN-US">Joe Fleming, E.I., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP</SPAN></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> <A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A> [mailto:<A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>tiejun hu<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:11 AM<BR><B>To:</B> equest-users<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Equest-users] FC+DOAS</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
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<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">hi equesters<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> Dose anybody have experiences for FC+DOAS, in my modle, outdoor air processed by independent air-condition unit, then supplied to room directly, do not go through FC inlet. as far as i kown, outdoor air and return air combined process in FC in some countries,like below picture<IMG id="_x0000_i1025" height="362" src="cid:5f001799$1$12f54c0069e$Coremail$hutiejun1223@126.com" width="600" border="0">but On the upper right corner,i see an outdoor air fan, is it an DOAS? if so ,how to realize it in equest? and how to set in the tab "OA FROM SYSTEM"?<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> any words will be appreciated!<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> yours sincere<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"> hi joe<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"> thanks for your reply,this is my Processing,<IMG id="_x0000_i1026" height="235" src="cid:7f0d6e88$2$12f54c0069e$Coremail$hutiejun1223@126.com" width="285" border="0">, independent outdoor air from DOAS are processed to S( isenthalpic with room N<SPAN lang="ZH-CN">£¬</SPAN>H:90%), then mixed with supply air from FC outnet(L), outdoor air doesn't undertake indoor load. Note that: my outdoor air do not get through FC, delivered to room derectly.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"> i doubt that , as your method, Whether outdoor air from DOAS will be delivered to FC, flow through the fan in FC, then increase fan energy?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"> thanks again!<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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