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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Will,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The first thing I would do is reconsider
your selection of System 6 for the Baseline. Since you have gas boilers for
preheat, I would choose System 5. System 6 is all electric, but you say your
baseline gas consumption is high, so you are currently modeling gas boiler(s)
in the baseline. Unfortunately, if you go with System 5, your baseline reheat
will be hot water which will save cost versus your proposed design.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Since both your baseboards and your reheat
are electric in the proposed design, your high electric use is probably not a
baseboard control issue (provided you are not showing many unmet load hours).
One thing to consider is your preheat leaving temperature – making it
higher will favor the gas boilers and reduce the zone electric heating. I’m
guessing that the requirement for identical preheat coil control in G3.1.2.3
means that you use the same preheat leaving temperature in the baseline and
proposed models.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Make sure you are modeling your
ventilation identically between the baseline and proposed models, unless you
have DCV.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Check your reports to make sure you don’t
have a lot of simultaneous heating and cooling going on. Maybe you can increase
the cooling supply temperature (and convince the HVAC designer to do it) to the
highest allowable temperature that meets cooling and dehumidification loads.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Your baseline may have similar, or even
less, heating load depending on the proposed envelope, due to the reduced
lighting load in the proposed design. With electric baseboard and electric
reheat, it will be difficult to show much heating savings unless you have a
much better envelope or ventilation heat recovery. We should all be
red-flagging electric reheat and baseboards whenever we see them on projects.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><b
style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><font size=2 color=black
face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond";color:black;font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal;mso-no-proof:yes'>William</span></font></b></st1:City><b
style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><font size=2 color=black
face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond";color:black;font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal;mso-no-proof:yes'> <st1:State w:st="on">Bishop</st1:State>, <st1:State
w:st="on">PE</st1:State></span></font></b></st1:place><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><font size=2 color=black face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond";color:black;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;mso-no-proof:yes'>, BEMP, LEED<sup>®</sup>
AP </span></font></b><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><font size=2
color="#006600" face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
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face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
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normal'><font size=2 color=black face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond";
color:black;font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;mso-no-proof:yes'>Pathfinder
Engineers & Architects LLP</span></font></b><b><font size=2 color=black
face="Franklin Gothic Medium Cond"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond";color:black;font-weight:bold;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-no-proof:yes'>Mechanical Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
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width=60 height=58 src="cid:image001.jpg@01CBEA13.D0F1D920" v:shapes="_x0000_s1026"></span><![endif]><st1:Street
w:st="on"><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>134 South Fitzhugh Street</span></font></st1:Street><font
size=1 color=navy><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><span
style='mso-tab-count:2'> </span></span></font><st1:City
w:st="on"><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>Rochester</span></font></st1:City><font
size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>, <st1:State w:st="on">NY</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">14608</st1:PostalCode></span></font><font size=1 color=navy><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><br>
</span></font><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>T: (585) 325-6004 </span></font><font
size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-no-proof:yes'>Ext. 114</span></font><font color=navy><span
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size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>F: (585) 325-6005</span></font><font size=1
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-no-proof:yes'><a
href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com">wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a><span
style='mso-tab-count:1'> </span></span></font><font
size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-no-proof:yes'><a
href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/">www.pathfinder-ea.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=5 color=green face=Webdings><span
style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;mso-bidi-font-family:Webdings;
color:green;mso-no-proof:yes'>P</span></font><font color=green><span
style='color:green;mso-no-proof:yes'><span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span></span></font><font size=1
color=green><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:green;mso-no-proof:yes'>Sustainability
– the forest AND the trees.</span></font><font size=5 color=green
face=Webdings><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;mso-bidi-font-family:
Webdings;color:green;mso-no-proof:yes'> P<span style='mso-tab-count:1'> </span></span></font><font
size=3 color=green face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:green'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Will Mak<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 24, 2011
10:31 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Equest-users] electric
heating issues</span></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hello all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I currently modeling a project for <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">LEED</st1:City> <st1:State w:st="on">NC</st1:State></st1:place>
v2009 submission for a corporate office building that’s roughly 125,000
SF. The proposed design’s primary HVAC system are AHUs + VAVs w/Electric
Reheat supplemented with electric baseboard along hot water preheat generated
from gas boilers. This system also uses chilled water with very efficient
chillers from a DES. The baseboard is suppose to take care of the envelope
loads and the VAV electric reheat coils will take care of the rest. Based on
the size of the building, the baseline HVAC system shall be System #6: Packaged
VAV with PFP Boxes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I’m pretty down the road on the models and for some
reason cannot get savings between the 2 models. The heating energy use on
electrical consumption overrides any savings attributed from lighting, site
lighting, cooling energy use, etc. Also, I know that in 90.1-2007, preheat must
be model identical on the proposed and baseline models. I am having a hard time
modeling both to be the same (inputs for preheat capacity are the same but the
energy use is different). The gas consumption is significantly higher on the
baseline model. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I double checked the loads from both models and the
heating/cooling requirements are roughly the same so there’s nothing
wrong with the building shell/internal load inputs. Any guidance on how to
reduce the consumption on the heating use for electrical consumption would be
great! I am confused why the baseline model wouldn’t require similar, if
not more, heating requirements and isn’t using more heating use for
electrical consumption. Also, guidance to ensure that the preheat is model
identical would help too!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Cliffnotes:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Proposed System: AHUs w/VAV Electric Reheat + Electric
Baseboard//Chilled Water from DES//Hot Water Preheat<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Baseline System: Packaged VAV with PFP Boxes<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue #1: Heating electrical consumption is super high on
proposed model despite similar loads for both models.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Issue #2: Preheat is not being model identical as required
from 90.1-2007. Capacity and design inputs are same for building but baseline
building is using significantly more gas.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 color="#c75b12" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#C75B12;font-weight:bold'>William Mak, LEED Green
Associate</span></font></b><font size=1 color="#1f497d" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'><br>
</span></font><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Mechanical Design Engineer</span></font><font
size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=1 color="#1f497d" face=Arial><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D'><br>
</span></font><b><font size=2 color="#c75b12" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#C75B12;font-weight:bold'>EPSTEIN</span></font></b><font
size=1 color="#1f497d" face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:#1F497D'><br>
</span></font><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Architecture<br>
Interiors<br>
Engineering<br>
Construction<br>
<br>
<st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">600 West Fulton Street</st1:address></st1:Street><br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Chicago</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Illinois</st1:State>
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">60661-1259</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
<br>
D: (312) 429-8116<br>
F: (312) 429-8800</span></font><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>E:</span></font><font size=1
color="#0070c0" face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:#0070C0'> <a href="mailto:wmak@epsteinglobal.com">wmak@epsteinglobal.com</a></span></font><font
size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><br>
W:</span></font><font size=1 color="#c75b12" face=Arial><span style='font-size:
8.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#C75B12'> <a href="http://www.epsteinglobal.com/"><font
color="#c75b12"><span style='color:#C75B12'>www.epsteinglobal.com</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 color="#00b050" face=Webdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#00B050'>þ</span></font><font
size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Epstein is a firm believer in sustainability. We ask that you
please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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