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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Joe/James:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Deleted/No partition - No heat transfer, no mass [Total
disconnect]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Adiabatic – No heat transfer, Yes mass <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Standard – Yes heat transfer, Yes mass (frame/mass partitions)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Air – Yes heat transfer, No mass<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Internal – No heat transfer, Yes mass (another means of
specifying thermal mass in a space – I haven’t used this myself)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>An adiabatic surface will retain/store heat hour-to-hour because
it has mass, but will not transfer heat to or from another space. If you take
square room and delete one of the walls, it is thermally a space with 3 walls
only, regardless of the geometry.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Air walls connecting separate zones are the closest thing to
reality within these options for multiple zones in a single, unpartitioned
space. They impose a finite limit on the amount of heat transfer that may
occur each hour between spaces. I’m unsure of whether jacking up their
conductivity (i.e. U=9999) would be closer to reality or would potentially
cause instabilities in the simulation, per discussion below, but the default
U-2.7 is recommended in the DOE2 help files. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="_x0000_i1027"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CBBEC6.60600A60" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fleming, Joe
[mailto:joe.fleming@tlc-eng.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 27, 2011 11:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Newman; Nick Caton; Arpan Bakshi<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] What's in an Air Wall?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>A deleted wall/partition may just be an adiabatic
partition. An air wall might be the better choice here. Not 100%
sure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Joe Fleming<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#333333'>E.I., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#333333'>Mechanical Engineer II<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#006363'>TLC Engineering for Architecture<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#006363'>Your 2030 Challenge Partner</span></b><b><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#006363'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>800 Fairway Drive, Suite 250<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Deerfield Beach, FL 33441-1816<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
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<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333'>phone: </span><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#555555'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>954-418-9096<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333'>fax: </span><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#555555'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>954-418-9296<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333'>direct: </span><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#555555'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>954-418-4591<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333'>website: </span><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#555555'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.tlc-engineers.com/">www.tlc-engineers.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.tlc-engineers.com/"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";text-decoration:
none'><img border=0 width=700 height=49 id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:image002.gif@01CBBEC6.60600A60"
alt="http://www.tlc-engineers.com/images/TLC_Sig_Loc_Block.gif"></span></a><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James
Newman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 27, 2011 6:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton; Arpan Bakshi<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] What's in an Air Wall?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m curious as to what people think is better for having a
thermal zone that is open to another thermal zone. Is it better to delete
the interior wall completely, or is it better to put an air wall in place of
the interior wall? Which way models more appropriately?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#87C139'>James M. Newman, EIT, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#48494A'>project engineer / energy analyst<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#87C139'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.me-engineers.com/"><b><span
style='color:#87C139'>M-E Engineers, Inc.</span></b></a></span><b><u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#87C139'><o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#48494A'>10055 west 43rd avenue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#48494A'>wheat ridge, co 80033<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#48494A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#48494A'>office: 303.421.6655<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#48494A'>direct: 720.898.3148<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:james.newman@me-engineers.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#595959'>james.newman@me-engineers.com</span></a></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#48494A'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nick
Caton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Arpan Bakshi<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] What's in an Air Wall?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think the “disparate-zone-instability” concern goes away
because the “gyp equivalent” air constructions will only permit a finite amount
of heat transfer each hour, and this transfer rate/direction is based directly
upon the hourly conditioned temperature difference (as calculated from the
previous hour), not directly from the amount of internal heat loads generated
in the present hour to be handled by the associated systems.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Replacing air constructions (which use the U-factor input
method) with a frame partition or similar (layer method) will only
fundamentally add mass/thermal-lag to the equation (and will likely have a
higher R-factor). I suppose adding mass to the partitions would be a
mitigating remedy if you did have crazy swings of this nature causing
“instability” with regard to temperature throttling setpoints, but again I
don’t think in the course of a normal model one would encounter this
problem. You’d have to almost be trying to create the problem – i.e.
making a an air partition with a monstrous area or re-defining the u-factor of
the air construction to be 9999 instead of 2.7 between two disparate spaces…
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Kudos again to everyone helping me keep my head on straight =)!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CBBEC6.60600A60" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Arpan Bakshi
[mailto:arpanbakshi@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 26, 2011 6:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fleming, Joe; David Eldridge; <equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] What's in an Air Wall?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I second the setpoint-related zone instability concerns,
particularly as it pertains to unmet hours. What are everyone's thoughts on
replacing virtual air walls with constructed partitions along zone-to-zone
adjacencies, with disperate conditioning requirements?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Arpan Bakshi<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
On Jan 26, 2011, at 5:47 PM, "Nick Caton" <<a
href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks everyone for the replies – from this collective
advice I’ve identified an assumption related to my third “bullet” that led me
astray (and also makes all 4 “cases” seem like silly questions in
hindsight): </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Air partitions are not “thermal superconductors.”
The wizard-generated (and DOE-2 help files suggested) U-2.7 value for an Air
wall construction is comparable in thermal resistance to a single layer of 3/8”
Gyp, without the mass. I had the picture in my mind’s eye that these
constructions were by default a few orders of magnitude higher in conductivity,
permitting any delta-T to be “instantly” resolved between spaces, effectively
tying the two spaces into one (thermally). From that, I was concerned
with how that might lead to setpoint-related instability in the model or
unpredictable behavior in how loads would be distributed between in-equal
systems and so forth… </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>I’m also concluding the practice of defining air walls to
have two systems working together in the same zone is sound, however the
temperatures between the divided spaces will not “instantly equalize” as I
assumed. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>I think I’m on much more solid footing now – thanks
fellas!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'><image001.jpg></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fleming, Joe
[mailto:joe.fleming@tlc-eng.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 26, 2011 2:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Eldridge; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] What's in an Air Wall?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>With these ideas in mind, for assigning 2 systems to one
zone. Maybe you could set your second zone up as being contained entirely
within the other zone (set up as best as equest will allow for zone within a
zone), this way there is a maximum amount of heat transfer happening between
the two zones. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Let's say the goal is to try and see if a VAV box, in a
given hour, has enough air to cool both spaces so that a dedicate system
doesn't need to run to supplement it. The VAV minimum would be reached
before overcooling began (although you could double the minimum airflow,
assuming each zone is half of the space served by 2 systems), and once enough
overcooling occurs the reheat will initiate. So, in this case there won't
be much shared load between the two spaces separated by an air wall, and the
dedicated system will run as well... </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Hmmm... Equest can't be entirely steady state,
because iterations seem to occur to decide if certain parts of a system need to
initiate or not. If equest wanted to decide whether or not to bring on a
humidifier, it should first need to run the loads one time to see if the unit,
given its airflow and supply temp, would lower the %rh enough to require
humidification, before initiating humidification. It would need to see
the final space temp after one iteration right?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>If this is the case then there would be a chance to shut
off a system in one of the zones if the heat transfer, after iteration #1, is
enough to satisfy the load.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Joe Fleming</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#333333'>E.I., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#333333'>Mechanical Engineer II</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='color:#006363'>TLC Engineering for Architecture<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#006363'>Your 2030 Challenge
Partner</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>800 Fairway Drive, Suite 250</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Deerfield Beach, FL 33441-1816</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:right'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'>phone: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>954-418-9096</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:right'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'>fax: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>954-418-9296</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:right'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'>direct: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>954-418-4591</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:right'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'>website: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.tlc-engineers.com">www.tlc-engineers.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a
href="http://www.tlc-engineers.com/"><span style='text-decoration:none'><image002.gif></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David
Eldridge<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] What's in an Air Wall?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:black'>Although “highly-conductive” you wouldn’t necessarily
assume that the space temperatures end up being identical – there is still some
resistance in your example, even if very small, and the area of interface is
not infinite either.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:black'>Your last example with area/volume – the heat transfer will
be limited by the size and thermal conductivity of this air wall. There
are also radiant and storage effects from the other surfaces in the zone that
might keep the two from being in equilibrium – that said your approach may be
fine as you may not have widely differing temperatures/loads. One
possible tweak might be to allocate your internal gains in these two modeled
spaces to load the separately modeled HVAC systems along how you think they would
actually perform in the real “two-system-one-zone” space. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:black'>David</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><u><span
style='color:black'>
</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>David S. Eldridge, Jr., P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, HBDP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='color:#244061'>Grumman/Butkus Associates</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><u><span
style='color:black'>
</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
<a href="mailto:[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]">[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nick Caton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] What's in an Air Wall?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi
everyone,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>A
discussion on [bldg-sim] prompted me to bring up a topic that’s been bugging me
in the “eQuest fundamentals” department… <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
have a general understanding that eQuest does not fundamentally model airflow
(specifically, convection of internal loads) between zones.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in'>-<span style='font-size:
7.0pt'> </span>The DOE-2
entry for INT-WALL-TYPE says an internal “air” partition “ …designates a
non-physical interior surface with no mass (i.e., an opening between spaces)
across which convection can take place.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in'>-<span style='font-size:
7.0pt'> </span>A
wizard-generated “air” internal partition has a construction with U-factor of
2.7… very conductive.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in'>-<span style='font-size:
7.0pt'> </span> To
draw a conclusion – two zones connected with an “air” partition are “connected”
thermally. In practice, the internal loads in one are “combined” with the
other.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in'>-<span style='font-size:
7.0pt'> </span>This means
heat in one zone should travel to the other in a rapid fashion during the
hourly simulation, until the space temperatures are identical between the two.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
hope my understanding thus far is correct, because from here I have some
questions that dig at what’s going on under the hood:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in'>1.<span style='font-size:
7.0pt'> </span>Imagine an air partition
“connects” zones A and B. These zones have separate systems and separate
thermostats with different setpoints. If zone A’s thermostat wants to be
much warmer than zone B, is it possible the systems will “fight” each other and
cause mutual unmet hours?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in'>2.<span style='font-size:
7.0pt'> </span>In the same setup, if Zone A
is identical in geometry to Zone B, but has 2x the internal/external loads,
does it follow that the system for System A will handle 2x the internal loads
as System B, or are they summed and applied equally to the two systems on an
hourly basis? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in'>3.<span style='font-size:
7.0pt'> </span>Is the “distribution of
loads behavior” affected if Systems A & B are specified with different
capacities and/or airflows? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in'>4.<span style='font-size:
7.0pt'> </span>If one space is larger in
area/volume than the other, does that affect how the collective loads are
distributed to the corresponding systems?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
have “exploited” air partition behavior in the past to get around the “one
system per zone” rule (need two RTU’s serving that space? Just make an
imaginary air wall!). However I want to be sure before I continue this
practice or advise others to do the same that there aren’t any major potential
pitfalls in how the loads/systems are distributed/affected…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><image001.jpg><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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