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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Susan et al:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>“Where it’s not allowed” is found simply where
the quantity of systems is mandated: 3.1.1. Model reviewers <u>will</u>
actively challenge baseline system quantities & exceptions taken if they suspect
this isn’t being followed to the letter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You should probably inform your colleagues that System 8 is VAV
and would not be CV in any case. You might leave it at that for your own
sanity, but this segways into a shaky possibility…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I mentioned 3.1.1 has exceptions – some of these would
dictate the baseline have a single-zone unit of type 3 or 4, which would be (!)
constant volume, if the zone is significantly different from the rest of the
model – read those exceptions carefully. I have never tried this, but
you might explore applying one of these exceptions (which were almost certainly
not intended for artificial dummy zones in eQuest/DOE2 models) to force an
analogous type 3 or 4 baseline system to a DOAS dummy zone… I would
personally not advise this approach but I’m bringing it up so you might
consider all angles if you’re having to argue your case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It’s totally possible the proposed DOAS design will ultimately
cause a net performance decrease – if so, the most you can do is focus on
ensuring the proposed system is designed well and is being modeled correctly. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Proposed</span></u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>: You should carefully explore the
DOAS control sequences to be sure you’re addressing its setpoints,
efficiencies and when it’s VAV fan(s) do and don’t run. Much
of this is often buried in submittal information and cryptic control sequences
that only the designer may understand. If it’s a challenge (and it usually
is) I’d encourage you make a quick “fill in the blank” for all
inputs and have your colleagues research & fill it out for you. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Baseline</span></u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>: Do explore fan energy bump-ups per
Bill below. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m going to tangent a bit – I hope this helps you, but
this is partially a form of selfish venting also =):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Remind your colleagues that the baseline is what it is: an arbitrary,
imaginary system that may not be a realistic design, but is supposed to
represent the minimum requirements of the 90.1 standard. Nobody can claim
a design is “efficient” or suggest it’s “inefficient”
without a reference, and 90.1 baseline models are (often) a poor reference in
this context, as they are <u>supposed</u> to be arbitrary to an extent. Unfortunately,
some entities adopting & enforcing the USGBC/LEED rating system and the
finger-pointing culture that occasionally surfaces through the submission
process have collectively done a lot to suggest the contrary: that such
baseline models fundamentally represent some form of real-world design (rather
than a set of minimum requirements in an energy standard), and so may be
appropriately used to accurately judge the value of a building’s
designers. Some designers & LEED project managers will, in turn, “pass
the buck” and judge the value of the person doing the energy modeling
when the numbers aren’t favorable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>No (practical) energy standard could account for all the variables
and design constraints of real-world building design – there will
inevitably be disconnects where “good” real-world design decisions
are not rewarded (even punished) in a rating system using a baseline based on
an energy standard.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>People shouldn’t have lose sleep over this, but they do.
We as energy modelers sometimes have a duty to both inform and set an example
in this industry’s culture. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CBBE0F.D79F4F80" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> David Eldridge
[mailto:dse@grummanbutkus.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan F<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] DOAS in baseline<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>A baseline DOAS would probably
have to have heat recovery (many exceptions of course), that may not be
required in your 1 per floor AHUs.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>
</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>David S. Eldridge, Jr., P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, HBDP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#244061'>Grumman/Butkus Associates</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>
</span></u><u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></u></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Bishop, Bill
[mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan F; Nick Caton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] DOAS in baseline<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Susan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>My short answer is no, there is nothing in Appendix G that requires
you or allows you to model a DOAS system that preconditions outside air. As you
and Nick said, first use G3.1.1 for the system type. Then refer to G3.1.2.10 to
determine if exhaust air energy recovery is required. Keep minimum outside air
requirements identical between the baseline and proposed per G3.1.2.5. If the
DOAS penalizes your proposed design from an energy perspective, check Table 6.5.3.1.1B
for potential adjustments to your baseline fan pressure drop, per the note to
Table G3.1.2.9.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond","sans-serif";
color:black'>William Bishop, PE, BEMP, LEED<sup>®</sup> AP </span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond","sans-serif";
color:#006600'>|</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond","sans-serif";
color:black'> </span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond","sans-serif";
color:black'>Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP</span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Mechanical Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:5.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600"
o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f"
stroked="f">
<v:stroke joinstyle="miter" />
<v:formulas>
<v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0" />
<v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0" />
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<v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2" />
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<o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t" />
</v:shapetype><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_2" o:spid="_x0000_s1027" type="#_x0000_t75"
alt="Top 100 Rochester 2010" style='position:absolute;margin-left:275.35pt;
margin-top:12.75pt;width:45.2pt;height:43.55pt;z-index:-1;visibility:visible;
mso-wrap-style:square;mso-wrap-distance-left:9pt;mso-wrap-distance-top:0;
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mso-position-horizontal:absolute;mso-position-horizontal-relative:text;
mso-position-vertical:absolute;mso-position-vertical-relative:text'>
<v:imagedata src="cid:image002.jpg@01CBBE13.10CC4670" o:title="Top 100 Rochester 2010" />
</v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]><span style='mso-ignore:vglayout;position:
absolute;z-index:-1;margin-left:367px;margin-top:17px;width:60px;height:58px'><img
width=60 height=58 src="cid:image002.jpg@01CBBE13.10CC4670"
alt="Top 100 Rochester 2010" v:shapes="Picture_x0020_2"></span><![endif]><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>134 South
Fitzhugh Street</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:navy'> </span><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Rochester, NY
14608</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:navy'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>T: (585) 325-6004 </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Ext. 114</span><span style='color:navy'> </span><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>F: (585)
325-6005</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com">wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a> </span><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><a
href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/">www.pathfinder-ea.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;
color:green'>P</span><span style='color:green'> </span><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:green'>Sustainability – the forest AND the
trees.</span><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green'> P </span><span
style='color:green'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Susan F [mailto:<a
href="mailto:modelsenergy@gmail.com">modelsenergy@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:31 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Eldridge<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] DOAS in baseline</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I don't necessary but I have
co-workers convinced that it will help us. They want to claim savings for
using a VAV OA system by saying that the baseline would be constant volume and
also want to claim savings for other control measures. I don't really buy
this because I can't see where 90.1 would allow that. But they are
arguing that they can't find where it's not allowed. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:26 AM, David Eldridge <<a
href="mailto:dse@grummanbutkus.com">dse@grummanbutkus.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:black'>I’m not sure why you want to have it in the baseline?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>
</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>David
S. Eldridge, Jr., P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, HBDP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#244061'>Grumman/Butkus
Associates</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>
</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Susan F<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] DOAS in baseline</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Nick,<br>
<br>
So if my baseline is system 8 and I'm using 1 system per floor as indicated in
G.3.1.1, I don't really see an exception that would allow the DOAS. Am I
missing something that would actually allow it?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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