<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:10pt">Gregory:<br><br>Yes, I have encountered the scenario you mentioned in item 3 below. It seems on occasion, eQuest is reporting VRV heating energy as cooling. I had a model where I created multiple hourly report blocks to verify that the spaces were not above set-point in the winter when the simulation file was reporting heat pump cooling energy use, which actually was heat pump heating energy use.<br><br>Might be the problem is that we are modeling the VRV system as PVVT systems, which they are not.<br><br>I have created custom curves for the Daikin VRV system, and it reduced energy usage about 3% below the standard eQuest heat pump curves. This is in addition to the spreadsheet analysis of the simulation heat-cool energy as outlined in the BSUG slide presentation of April 15,
2009.<br><br>Paul Diglio<br><br><div><br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 10pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Gregory Raffio <graffio@gosustainableenergy.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Carol Gardner <cmg750@gmail.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Paul Diglio <paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net>; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sat, January 22, 2011 6:51:34 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users] VRF/VRV PowerPoint on Modeling<br></font><br>
Sorry, Carol, but I think we're on different pages. That's fine, its really easy for Q&A to misfire via e-mail. Its very likely that my original question set was a bit too scattered.<div><br></div><div>Let me try to simplify </div>
<div><ul><li>Using the hourly report methodology from the presentation, we obtained the electricity use for space cooling and space heating for the entire building, and each individual system.</li><li>eQuest outputs many standard reports such as "Monthly Energy Use Consumption by Enduse", "Annual Peak Demand by Enduse", "Monthly Utility Bills - All Rates", etc. </li>
<ul><li>These reports reflect the information shown in the BEPU and other common eQuest reports from the detailed results. </li><li>For example, the BEPU report and the "Monthly Energy Use Consumption by Enduse" report have the same #'s for space heating and space cooling electricity, as we would expect</li>
</ul><li>These standard eQuest output reports reported VERY DIFFERENT numbers for space cooling and space heating compared to the numbers derived from the hourly reports.</li></ul><div>I'm really just putting feelers out there to determine if:</div>
</div><div><ol><li>If anyone has encountered such a mis-match before (regardless of system type, just a general "hey modelers, has anyone seen this before"_</li><li>If anyone has ever followed the hourly report methodology from the presentation and done the double-check that we did and had agreement between eQuest's reports and their excel calculations</li>
<li>If anyone has run across heat pump heating and cooling energy being reported oddly (such as all its energy use being reported as cooling when there is obviously roughly a 50%-50% split)</li></ol></div><div><div><div class="gmail_quote">
On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Carol Gardner <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:cmg750@gmail.com">cmg750@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Hi Gregory,<br><br>It's hard to comment without seeing your .inp and .pd2 input files and without knowing exactly what reports you are looking at, e.g. SS-A, SV-A, BEPS, etc. My first thought, however, was to wonder if you are looking at a system report that doesn't include the ventilation load. Some eQUEST reports do and some do not. It would require investigation to determine whether that is the case and since, again, I don't know what exactly you're looking at, I'm not up for it. You might check the documentation about what's in reports, look on the DOE2 website or Google it, to see for yourself.<br>
<br>That's a start anyway.<br><br>Carol<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Gregory Raffio <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:graffio@gosustainableenergy.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:graffio@gosustainableenergy.com">graffio@gosustainableenergy.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Paul and the rest of the user group,<div><br></div><div>The attached presentation was a great tool to both confirm and improve our approach for modeling VRF. I do have a follow-up question/problem that arose during the excel work (Slides 33 and 34 of the presentation). </div>
<div><br></div><div><u>Question:</u> Has anyone ever followed this approach and found out that the results from the hourly report are significantly different than the "monthly and annual energy consumption by enduse" reports that eQuest generates?</div>
<div><br></div><div><u>Step-by-step explanation of my process:</u></div><div>I created an hourly report exactly as in the presentation with the electric input to both heat and cool for every system in the facility along with an hourly report for the building as a whole. When I add up the heating energy and cooling energy of the individual systems, it equals the heating and cooling energy for the whole facility, so far so good.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Next, we looked at this heating and cooling energy and compared it to the "monthly and annual energy consumption by enduse" report that eQuest spits out. These numbers were not in agreement. For example, according to the hourly reports, the electricity used for space heating is 18,615 kWh while the space heating electricity in the "monthly energy consumption by enduse" report is 10,930 kWh. Big difference. </div>
<div><br></div><div>In some modeling programs (cough, Trace), I've seen heat pumps output the combination of their energy in either space heating or space cooling and not differentiate (which appears to be happening in eQuest as our space cooling energy is going up in the winter with the VRF system... and the building is definitely in a heating-dominated climate and has little internal space). The combination of the hourly report heating and cooling energy was 74,224 kWh and according to the "monthly energy consumption by enduse" report, the combination is 64,330 kWh. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I tried adding in the "HP Supp" energy and some other uses from the "monthly energy consumption by enduse" report to no avail. I've had another eQuest user check my excel calculations and my hourly reports and they seem to be in good working order. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Any guesses, suggestions, strong reactions?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div></div><div>On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Paul Diglio <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div></div><div><div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<div>Gary:<br><br>Please find attached file.<br>
<br>Paul Diglio<br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 10pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1">
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> "<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Gary.Schrader@buildings.schneider-electric.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Gary.Schrader@buildings.schneider-electric.com">Gary.Schrader@buildings.schneider-electric.com</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Gary.Schrader@buildings.schneider-electric.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Gary.Schrader@buildings.schneider-electric.com">Gary.Schrader@buildings.schneider-electric.com</a>><div>
<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br></div><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tue, October 5, 2010 9:06:28 AM<div>
<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Equest-users] VRF/VRV PowerPoint on Modeling<br></div></font><div><div></div><div><br>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">All,</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">At one time I recall seeing a PowerPoint presentation posted
to the ListServ about how to model VRV/VRF in eQuest. It took you through each
of the individual steps necessary to create a system.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">In searching the archives, I believe that this file was
scrubbed. Does anybody have a copy of it to repost? My understanding is that it
was developed by a firm out on the west coast, perhaps
Oregon .</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Thanks,</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Gary</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-size: 8.5pt; font-family: Arial;"><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Gregory Raffio, LEED AP BD+C<br>Go Sustainable Energy, LLC<br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:graffio@gosustainableenergy.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:graffio@gosustainableenergy.com">graffio@gosustainableenergy.com</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br></div></div><font color="#888888">Carol Gardner PE<br>
<div></div>
</font></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Gregory Raffio, LEED AP BD+C<br>Go Sustainable Energy, LLC<br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:graffio@gosustainableenergy.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:graffio@gosustainableenergy.com">graffio@gosustainableenergy.com</a><br>Cell: 773-484-9610<br>
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