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<font face="Calibri">Hi Matt,<br>
That's the same approach we take. Then I double check to make
sure the airflow rates in the HVAC summary report in eQuest match
what the actual rates are. <br>
<br>
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<br>
On 1/20/2011 5:55 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:MattDubrovich@Eaton.com">MattDubrovich@Eaton.com</a> wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">Unfortunately
I
think it might be more complicated than that; I wish it
wasn’t. I
have an old printout of an eQuest/DOE2 document called
“Sizing Air-Side
HVAC Systems” which steps through the calculation. I
haven’t
been able to figure out where I printed it from (help
file?, dictionary? engineers
manual?). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">My
take is that eQuest sizes coils based on sea level
airflow. At the end of
the calculation it simply multiples the needed sea level
airflow by the
altitude factor to account for altitude effects. Per
Carol’s email,
eQuest assumes any user entered flows are at sea level.
This is
frustrating because plans usually show airflows at site
altitude, not sea
level. We’ve tried Nick’s work-around which is to change
the
altitude to 0 and enter airflows per the drawings. This
works on the
airflow side but not the coil side. The coils are sized
using the entered
airflow x 1.08 so eQuest creates coils that are larger
than what you actually
have. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";">What
seems
to be more correct is to keep the altitude specified and
divide every
airflow you enter into the model by the altitude factor.
If you’re
in Denver and want to model a 10,000 CFM fan, enter
10,000/1.21 into the supply
CFM input. eQuest takes that number and multiplies it by
1.21.
Every input with a “CFM” must be adjusted including
exhaust, CFM/SF,
etc. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: black;" lang="EN-GB">Matt Dubrovich, PE, CEM,
BEMP <br>
</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"
lang="EN-GB">Energy Solutions Group</span><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: black;"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt
medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color:
rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Carol
Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>; Kendra
Tupper<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Does eQUEST derate
equipment for altitude?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="margin-left: 0.5in;">
<p class="MsoBodyText"><span style="font-family:
"Courier New";">Nick/Kendra,</span><span
style="font-family: "Tms
Rmn","serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText"><span style="font-family:
"Courier New";">The altitude
factor effects the supply air and the outside air. The
write up below suggests
that one calculate both supply and outside air at sea
level and then apply the
altitude factor to it. In real life, however, the design
engineer is
calculating and specifying supply and outside air cfm
that is already adjusted
for the altitude and the altitude factor should simply
be set at 1.0 in eQUEST.</span><span style="font-family:
"Tms Rmn","serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText"><span style="font-family:
"Courier New";">The excerpts below
discuss the areas of eQUEST impacted by the altitude
factor:</span><span style="font-family: "Tms
Rmn","serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoBodyText"><span style="font-family:
"Courier New";">N</span><span
style="font-family: "Tms
Rmn","serif";">ote: the quantities in
this report (SV-A)
have been adjusted for <span style="color: white;
background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(49, 106,
197);">altitude</span>
even though DOE-2 requires that any flows you enter in
SYSTEMS be at sea level.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Tms
Rmn","serif";">1.
</span>SUPPLY FLOW<br>
is the calculated or user-specified supply flow for each
zone. Only if
you have specified a value for the ASSIGNED-FLOW keyword
in the ZONE command
will the value here correspond to your input. The ZONE
keywords AIR-CHANGES/HR
and FLOW/AREA will be accepted by SYSTEMS only if they are
consistent with the
user-supplied HEATING-CAPACITY and COOLING-CAPACITY and
are equivalent to a
flow larger than that of the exhaust from or the
ventilation to the zone. The <span style="color: white;
background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(49, 106, 197);">ALTITUDE
FACTOR</span> will be applied.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoListNumber" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span
style="font-family: "Tms
Rmn","serif";">5.
</span>OUTSIDE AIR FLOW<br>
reflects the user-specified outside air quantity entered at
the zone
level. If OUTSIDE-AIR-FLOW is specified, its value is
multiplied by the <span style="color: white; background:
none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(49, 106, 197);">ALTITUDE
FACTOR</span> and reported
here. Otherwise the reported value is the maximum of the
flow-equivalent
values of OA-CHANGES and OA-FLOW/PER, multiplied by <span
style="color: white; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0%
rgb(49, 106, 197);">ALTITUDE FACTOR</span>. For the
actual amount of
outside air delivered to the zone for central systems, see
OUTSIDE AIR RATIO
above.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Nick
Caton <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Kenda,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’m curious as to
whether you
received any responses to the query below.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I have incorporated
a practice of
manually setting the site altitude in my eQuest
models to “0,”
because (1) as designers we do not specify equipment
with CFM’s at sea
level, it is already “corrected” for altitude in
this sense, and
(2) those who review models tend to miss the
significance of the altitude
factor in the SV-A reports and complain of
incorrectly entered airflow rates.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I don’t know if this
constitutes a
“best practice,” but I know it is common to a number
of the regular
contributors to these lists besides myself. As it
stands, current
standards (90.1-2007) don’t have us “de-rate” or
otherwise
adjust required minimum SEER/EER values for
altitude… so inversely it
seem appropriate to remove the altitude variable
when modeling for a
performance rating… thoughts?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"
id="_x0000_i1025"
src="https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html?ui=2&ik=367e06555b&view=att&th=12da4c2bcd697d9b&attid=0.0.1&disp=emb&zw"
border="0" height="37" width="119"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><b><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><b><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">Smith & Boucher
Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">25501 west valley
parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">olathe ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">direct 913 344.0036</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">fax 913 345.0617</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.smithboucher.com/"
target="_blank"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;"> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt
medium medium; border-style: solid none none;
border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color
-moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of
</b>Kendra Tupper<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 02, 2010 1:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Does eQUEST derate
equipment for altitude?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">I'm
trying to get clarification on exactly how eQUEST
handles the altitude above
sea level that is entered in Site Parameters. My
understanding is this affects
the airflow sizing calculations for cfm, but does
not change the hourly air
density for all calculations. If that is correct,
then the altitude only
corrects the cfms at the zone and system level, but
does not derate equipment
efficiencies. So, if you were to enter the altitude
above sea level, you should
then enter your airflows at sea level, but enter all
equipment efficiencies at the derated conditions for
that altitude.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Is
that correct?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Kendra
Tupper, PE, LEED AP<br>
Senior Consultant<br>
Built Environment Team<br>
<br>
Rocky Mountain Institute | T 303-567-8641 | F
303-245-7213 | <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.rmi.org/" target="_blank">www.rmi.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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