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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Unfortunately
I think it might be more complicated than that; I wish it wasn’t. I
have an old printout of an eQuest/DOE2 document called “Sizing Air-Side
HVAC Systems” which steps through the calculation. I haven’t
been able to figure out where I printed it from (help file?, dictionary? engineers
manual?). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>My
take is that eQuest sizes coils based on sea level airflow. At the end of
the calculation it simply multiples the needed sea level airflow by the
altitude factor to account for altitude effects. Per Carol’s email,
eQuest assumes any user entered flows are at sea level. This is
frustrating because plans usually show airflows at site altitude, not sea
level. We’ve tried Nick’s work-around which is to change the
altitude to 0 and enter airflows per the drawings. This works on the
airflow side but not the coil side. The coils are sized using the entered
airflow x 1.08 so eQuest creates coils that are larger than what you actually
have. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What
seems to be more correct is to keep the altitude specified and divide every
airflow you enter into the model by the altitude factor. If you’re
in Denver and want to model a 10,000 CFM fan, enter 10,000/1.21 into the supply
CFM input. eQuest takes that number and multiplies it by 1.21.
Every input with a “CFM” must be adjusted including exhaust, CFM/SF,
etc. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Matt Dubrovich, PE, CEM, BEMP <br>
</span></b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Energy Solutions Group</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol
Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org; Kendra Tupper<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Does eQUEST derate equipment for altitude?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<p class=MsoBodyText><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>Nick/Kendra,</span><span style='font-family:"Tms Rmn","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoBodyText><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>The altitude
factor effects the supply air and the outside air. The write up below suggests
that one calculate both supply and outside air at sea level and then apply the
altitude factor to it. In real life, however, the design engineer is
calculating and specifying supply and outside air cfm that is already adjusted
for the altitude and the altitude factor should simply be set at 1.0 in eQUEST.</span><span style='font-family:"Tms Rmn","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoBodyText><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>The excerpts below
discuss the areas of eQUEST impacted by the altitude factor:</span><span style='font-family:"Tms Rmn","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoBodyText><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>N</span><span style='font-family:"Tms Rmn","serif"'>ote: the quantities in this report (SV-A)
have been adjusted for <span style='color:white;background:#316AC5'>altitude</span>
even though DOE-2 requires that any flows you enter in SYSTEMS be at sea level.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Tms Rmn","serif"'>1.
</span>SUPPLY FLOW<br>
is the calculated or user-specified supply flow for each zone. Only if
you have specified a value for the ASSIGNED-FLOW keyword in the ZONE command
will the value here correspond to your input. The ZONE keywords AIR-CHANGES/HR
and FLOW/AREA will be accepted by SYSTEMS only if they are consistent with the
user-supplied HEATING-CAPACITY and COOLING-CAPACITY and are equivalent to a
flow larger than that of the exhaust from or the ventilation to the zone. The <span style='color:white;background:#316AC5'>ALTITUDE FACTOR</span> will be applied.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoListNumber style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Tms Rmn","serif"'>5.
</span>OUTSIDE AIR FLOW<br>
reflects the user-specified outside air quantity entered at the zone
level. If OUTSIDE-AIR-FLOW is specified, its value is multiplied by the <span style='color:white;background:#316AC5'>ALTITUDE FACTOR</span> and reported
here. Otherwise the reported value is the maximum of the flow-equivalent
values of OA-CHANGES and OA-FLOW/PER, multiplied by <span style='color:white;
background:#316AC5'>ALTITUDE FACTOR</span>. For the actual amount of
outside air delivered to the zone for central systems, see OUTSIDE AIR RATIO
above.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Nick Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Kenda,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I’m curious as to whether you
received any responses to the query below.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have incorporated a practice of
manually setting the site altitude in my eQuest models to “0,”
because (1) as designers we do not specify equipment with CFM’s at sea
level, it is already “corrected” for altitude in this sense, and
(2) those who review models tend to miss the significance of the altitude
factor in the SV-A reports and complain of incorrectly entered airflow rates.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I don’t know if this constitutes a
“best practice,” but I know it is common to a number of the regular
contributors to these lists besides myself. As it stands, current
standards (90.1-2007) don’t have us “de-rate” or otherwise
adjust required minimum SEER/EER values for altitude… so inversely it
seem appropriate to remove the altitude variable when modeling for a
performance rating… thoughts?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" border=0 height=37 id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html?ui=2&ik=367e06555b&view=att&th=12da4c2bcd697d9b&attid=0.0.1&disp=emb&zw" width=119></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com/" target="_blank" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Kendra Tupper<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 02, 2010 1:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Does eQUEST derate equipment for altitude?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I'm
trying to get clarification on exactly how eQUEST handles the altitude above
sea level that is entered in Site Parameters. My understanding is this affects
the airflow sizing calculations for cfm, but does not change the hourly air
density for all calculations. If that is correct, then the altitude only
corrects the cfms at the zone and system level, but does not derate equipment
efficiencies. So, if you were to enter the altitude above sea level, you should
then enter your airflows at sea level, but enter all
equipment efficiencies at the derated conditions for that altitude.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Is
that correct?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Kendra
Tupper, PE, LEED AP<br>
Senior Consultant<br>
Built Environment Team<br>
<br>
Rocky Mountain Institute | T 303-567-8641 | F
303-245-7213 | <a href="http://www.rmi.org/" target="_blank">www.rmi.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
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To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE<o:p></o:p></p>
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