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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>No prob!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Whether you model the catwalks explicitly or not –
consider you could account for their people/light/other loads by simply adding
those to the common atrium space. The catwalks may initially make your
LPD inputs easier, but they might complicate the manual deletion/surface assignment
process I outlined by creating more surfaces for you to consider during space deletion
and surface assignments. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Also note I corrected myself and if your atrium shape is quite
regular, you may be able to use the wizard atrium inputs (open to below/open to
above) provided you use the “immediately above…” shell
placement option for floors 2 and up. It’s probably worth experimentation
as this could ultimately be a great timesaver. You access these options by
double clicking the zone map image on the bottom-left of the DD wizard zone
definition screen. Note the zone shape at the ground level seems to
determine the projected roof shape at the top level – you may need to
define separate zones to account for the actual geometries.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ultimately, the approach that makes the most sense to <u>you</u>
is the right one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I would not skip over Varkie’s advice to check out the
completed reference models at bepan.info. The concept of partitioning a
new atrium zone every couple floors may do a better job of “layering”
unconditioned/semi-conditioned spaces, and depending on where your return air
is drawn that may be a more-accurate approach. You might pick up some
other useful ideas.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There are some software tools out there which will convert *.pdf
to *.dwg/*.dxf, but in my experience the end results are never perfect and
would require manual tracing regardless for eQuest. I’d second Otto’s
advice to simply trace in AutoCAD or other tool of choice (I also use Sketchup)
using the PDF as a direct reference. That said, it’s way better to
push your sources to give you a real CAD reference if it can be made available.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image002.jpg@01CBB652.709B98D0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Otto
Schwieterman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 17, 2011 1:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Jones; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Advanced Level Equest Classes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Send the PDF to your background in AutoCAD (This step depends on
what software your computer has installed), correctly scale the pdf and trace
the floor plan in AutoCAD.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Chris Jones
[mailto:cj@enersave.ca] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 17, 2011 1:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Advanced Level Equest Classes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Thanks Nick!<br>
Re the catwalk - they are open to the atrium. The one reason to model
them is because they have light fixtures associated. Including the floor
areas of the catwalks increases the baseline lighting to capture the lighting
of the catwalks.<br>
<br>
The atrium is not open to the rest of the building except by door.
Between the perimeter spaces and the atrium is glazing. <br>
<br>
The other question I have is what do you do when the floor plans are submitted
in PDF - how do you import the floor plans into equest? Or do you have to
enter all the vertices manually?<br>
<br>
Thanks again for taking time to respond.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 04:04 PM 14/01/2011, Nick Caton wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi Chris,<br>
<br>
Some running thoughts you might consider – all this in concert might get
the job done, in any case it’s what I’d try first:<br>
- Varying
“floorplates”/zoning for each floor means you need unique shells
per floor, which means you can’t use any of the
“open-to-above/below” approaches to making an atrium with the
wizards. That simplifies the discussion somewhat: you’ll need to
define this atrium somehow “manually.”<br>
- I would draw out the
“catwalk corridors” (assuming they’re covered and separately
conditioned) on their respective shell-floors. If they’re open to
the atrium I’d ignore them entirely.<br>
- I would finish
everything up in the wizards, and upon entering detailed mode delete every
created space/zone that’s part of the “atrium,” excepting the
top level’s, which should include any roof/skylight surfaces and be
retained. Delete any child surfaces associated with these atrium zones
excepting any interior partitions to the perimeter zones – if those exist,
move the interior partitions to be a child component of the appropriate
perimeter zone first before deleting the atrium zone. You might be above
to avoid this scenario in the wizards by defining the atrium zones LAST at the
custom zone definition dialogs for each shell… not sure but worth a shot.<br>
- I would modify the
space geometries (volume) and its internal loads (# of people should account
for the catwalks if they’re open) to match the full volume of the atrium<br>
- Assign a SUM system as
a placeholder to the atrium – goal being to have all its loads handled by
the systems serving the perimeter spaces <br>
- I would use the 2D view
of each shell to modify all internal walls “open” to the
atrium in the actual design to be of type “AIR,” and to
simultaneously ensure their parent space is associated to the large, common
atrium space. I <u>think</u> this will correctly tie the atrium’s
internal loads to the others thermally… this is why we took care to keep
those and not delete them along with the wizard-generated atrium spaces.<br>
- I would use the
“DIRECT” option for the HVAC systems’ return air path, rather
than the plenum/duct options – I <u>think</u> this will indirectly ensure
the heat gains/losses of any atrium skylights/roofs and the collective internal
heat gains in the atrium find their way into the return air stream<br>
<br>
I can’t say 100% whether this is all you’d need to do, but
it’s a game plan I would start with. To make a comment regarding
accuracy: It’s probably fair to say eQuest, which doesn’t
model complex CFD on an hourly basis, may not be as accurate in any end-case as
some more costly software options may be for a large atrium as you’re
describing. This approach should be sufficient however for getting into
the right ballpark, provided those “<u>think</u>” items above hold
true (you might want to hold off for others’ input).<br>
<br>
<br>
Best of luck – sounds like an interesting project to say the least =)!<br>
<br>
~Nick<br>
<br>
<br>
PS: I’ve never been compensated for my advice on these lists, and
I’m not about to start asking, but neither have I taken on any liability
or promise of availability as a formal instructor... That said, I
wouldn’t go home and cry myself to sleep if someone found anything
valuable enough to compensate ^_^.<br>
<br>
<img border=0 width=119 height=37 id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:image003.jpg@01CBB652.709B98D0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"><br>
<b> <br>
NICK CATON, E.I.T.<br>
</b>PROJECT ENGINEER<br>
Smith & Boucher Engineers<br>
25501 west valley parkway<br>
olathe ks 66061<br>
direct 913 344.0036<br>
fax 913 345.0617<br>
<a href="www.smithboucher.htm">www.smithboucher.com</a><u> <br>
</u> <br>
<b>From:</b> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [<a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">
mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Chris
Jones<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 14, 2011 1:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Advanced Level Equest Classes<br>
<br>
The topic I consider advanced is modelling different floor plate shapes on each
floor - with a multi-storey atrium in the middle. The atrium has corridor
catwalks for crossing from one side of the building to another. Supply
air is transferred into the atrium from the surrounding spaces - the atrium is
a return air plenum for multiple air handlers. <br>
<br>
I would gladly pay for a step by step tutorial on setting up the geometry for
such a building.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I’ve been in discussions with those who make a business of eQuest/DOE2
instruction regarding this issue… I think a major reason we don’t
see many ‘advanced’ classes is: it would be very hard to develop a
rubric/syllabus for an ‘advanced’ group of learners as it would
seem there aren’t many ‘advanced’ topics that aren’t
extremely system/project-specific (therefore seemingly of little interest to a
group of learners at large). <br>
<br>
One exception that comes to mind that would probably be of common interest
might be the evaluation and creation of chiller & heatpump performance
curves – that skillset is frankly tough to self-learn (it took me a long
while and multiple projects)… <br>
<br>
As an aside: I might also cite a real-world experience where a local rep
for Carrier hosted an event that included discussion/instruction for a single,
narrow ‘advanced’ eQuest topic: geothermal well-field design using
eQuest/DOE2. The room was <u>packed*</u>! I hope more equipment
reps in time will recognize the value and potential draw when advanced eQuest
topic instruction is offered, even if only for a very narrow sort of
system/topic.<br>
<br>
If you really would like formal, ‘advanced’ instruction, you might
be best-advised to come up with a list of topics you want instruction/guidance
on (make your own personal rubric), and share that list either publicly on the
lists or directly with those who offer training services – you may be
able to then filter out who is able and is willing to teach you some or all of
your desired instruction individually, and at what cost. <br>
<br>
~Nick<br>
<br>
* I would be remiss to not mention Anthony Hardman (frequent contributor to
these lists) provided that instruction, and it was excellent.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Chris Jones<br>
14 Oneida Avenue<br>
Toronto, ON M5J 2E3.<br>
Tel. 416-203-7465<br>
Fax. 416-946-1005<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
Chris Jones<br>
14 Oneida Avenue<br>
Toronto, ON M5J 2E3.<br>
Tel. 416-203-7465<br>
Fax. 416-946-1005<o:p></o:p></p>
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