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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Arpan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I just checked myself as I haven’t tried the wizard atria
options recently – it appears I was wrong and you can “multi-level”
+ “open to below” options for single-level shells representing
floors above the ground level, provided you use the “immediately above”
option to locate those levels. The conditioned height defined for the
first level of the atrium determines the final space height, but also the
height of the associated roof surfaces – kinda wonky end-results if those
are in the middle of the building (roof would be shaded for the most part)…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It also appears a changing atrium shape doesn’t prevent
surface intersections/overlap from occurring… Partitions are not created
for spaces adjacent to an ‘open to below’ space, with an end-result
being the only “thermal tie” between the atrium and the other zones
would be at the first level.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>End-results seem inconsistent depending on what options I
choose, and I’m unsure whether the overlapping/intersecting surfaces
generated may have stability implications down the road for a complex model, so
I’m hesitant to recommend this route without others’ approval…
does anyone else have recent experience with the wizard-level atrium options have
thoughts to share?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="_x0000_i1027"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CBB410.278CB3C0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nick
Caton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 14, 2011 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Arpan Bakshi<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Advanced Level Equest Classes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What you’re referring to is something I brought up in my
first bullet – these these wizard-level atrium options, useful as they
may be, are limited in application to multi-story shells. If you need to
define unique zone maps (or ‘floor plates’) for each level, then
you’re stuck defining unique shells for each level, which means you
can’t pursue those automated atrium options.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If the simplification could be justified (the same zone map /
“floor plate” could be applied to each level) by the
project’s geometries, then I’d happily scrap the process below in
favor of using the wizard features to define a multi-story atrium –
it’d be much less work, though the system-side coordination/analysis
would still be necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CBB410.278CB3C0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Arpan Bakshi [mailto:arpanbakshi@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 14, 2011 3:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Chris Jones; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Advanced Level Equest Classes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Nick,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Great input. I am curious how deletion of atria zones in
ddedit compares to the multi-level space zone characteristic option while you
are creating geometry. There is an allowance for gain assignment to only
zone-lower portion.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Arpan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Nick Caton <<a
href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi Chris,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Some running thoughts you might consider
– all this in concert might get the job done, in any case it’s what
I’d try first:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>-</span><span style='font-size:
7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Varying “floorplates”/zoning
for each floor means you need unique shells per floor, which means you
can’t use any of the “open-to-above/below” approaches to
making an atrium with the wizards. That simplifies the discussion
somewhat: you’ll need to define this atrium somehow “manually.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>-</span><span style='font-size:
7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I would draw out the “catwalk
corridors” (assuming they’re covered and separately conditioned) on
their respective shell-floors. If they’re open to the atrium
I’d ignore them entirely.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>-</span><span style='font-size:
7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I would finish everything up in the
wizards, and upon entering detailed mode delete every created space/zone
that’s part of the “atrium,” excepting the top level’s,
which should include any roof/skylight surfaces and be retained. Delete
any child surfaces associated with these atrium zones excepting any interior
partitions to the perimeter zones – if those exist, move the interior
partitions to be a child component of the appropriate perimeter zone first
before deleting the atrium zone. You might be above to avoid this
scenario in the wizards by defining the atrium zones LAST at the custom zone
definition dialogs for each shell… not sure but worth a shot.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>-</span><span style='font-size:
7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I would modify the space geometries
(volume) and its internal loads (# of people should account for the catwalks if
they’re open) to match the full volume of the atrium</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>-</span><span style='font-size:
7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Assign a SUM system as a placeholder to
the atrium – goal being to have all its loads handled by the systems
serving the perimeter spaces </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>-</span><span style='font-size:
7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I would use the 2D view of each shell to
modify all internal walls “open” to the atrium in the actual
design to be of type “AIR,” and to simultaneously ensure their
parent space is associated to the large, common atrium space. I <u>think</u>
this will correctly tie the atrium’s internal loads to the others thermally…
this is why we took care to keep those and not delete them along with the
wizard-generated atrium spaces.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>-</span><span style='font-size:
7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I would use the “DIRECT”
option for the HVAC systems’ return air path, rather than the plenum/duct
options – I <u>think</u> this will indirectly ensure the heat
gains/losses of any atrium skylights/roofs and the collective internal heat
gains in the atrium find their way into the return air stream</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I can’t say 100% whether this is
all you’d need to do, but it’s a game plan I would start with.
To make a comment regarding accuracy: It’s probably fair to say
eQuest, which doesn’t model complex CFD on an hourly basis, may not be as
accurate in any end-case as some more costly software options may be for a
large atrium as you’re describing. This approach should be
sufficient however for getting into the right ballpark, provided those “<u>think</u>”
items above hold true (you might want to hold off for others’ input).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Best of luck – sounds like an
interesting project to say the least =)!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>PS: I’ve never been
compensated for my advice on these lists, and I’m not about to start
asking, but neither have I taken on any liability or promise of availability as
a formal instructor... That said, I wouldn’t go home and cry myself
to sleep if someone found anything valuable enough to compensate ^_^.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=119 height=37
id="_x0000_i1026"
src="?ui=2&ik=8d56e79bd6&view=att&th=12d8657cfaf09147&attid=0.0.1&disp=emb&zw"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com"
target="_blank" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Chris Jones<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 14, 2011 1:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Advanced Level Equest Classes<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
topic I consider advanced is modelling different floor plate shapes on each
floor - with a multi-storey atrium in the middle. The atrium has corridor
catwalks for crossing from one side of the building to another. Supply
air is transferred into the atrium from the surrounding spaces - the atrium is
a return air plenum for multiple air handlers. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
I would gladly pay for a step by step tutorial on setting up the geometry for
such a building.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I’ve
been in discussions with those who make a business of eQuest/DOE2 instruction
regarding this issue… I think a major reason we don’t see many
‘advanced’ classes is: it would be very hard to develop a rubric/syllabus
for an ‘advanced’ group of learners as it would seem there
aren’t many ‘advanced’ topics that aren’t extremely
system/project-specific (therefore seemingly of little interest to a group of
learners at large). <br>
<br>
One exception that comes to mind that would probably be of common interest
might be the evaluation and creation of chiller & heatpump performance
curves – that skillset is frankly tough to self-learn (it took me a long
while and multiple projects)… <br>
<br>
As an aside: I might also cite a real-world experience where a local rep
for Carrier hosted an event that included discussion/instruction for a single,
narrow ‘advanced’ eQuest topic: geothermal well-field design using
eQuest/DOE2. The room was <u>packed*</u>! I hope more equipment
reps in time will recognize the value and potential draw when advanced eQuest
topic instruction is offered, even if only for a very narrow sort of
system/topic.<br>
<br>
If you really would like formal, ‘advanced’ instruction, you might
be best-advised to come up with a list of topics you want instruction/guidance
on (make your own personal rubric), and share that list either publicly on the
lists or directly with those who offer training services – you may be
able to then filter out who is able and is willing to teach you some or all of
your desired instruction individually, and at what cost. <br>
<br>
~Nick<br>
<br>
* I would be remiss to not mention Anthony Hardman (frequent contributor to
these lists) provided that instruction, and it was excellent.<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
Chris Jones<br>
14 Oneida Avenue<br>
Toronto, ON M5J 2E3.<br>
Tel. 416-203-7465<br>
Fax. 416-946-1005<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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