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<P>Chris:</P>
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<P>Thank you for this insight.I have been working Multi Family Housing and such "defensible" number are rare.</P>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><A name=_MailAutoSig><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast; mso-no-proof: yes"><FONT face=Calibri>John R. Aulbach, PE, CEM<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></A></P>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Chris Balbach <cbalbach@psdconsulting.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wed, December 8, 2010 1:57:46 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs<BR></FONT><BR>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">A great deal of research related work on this subject can be found beginning on page 24 of this recent NREL publication:.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/building_america/house_simulation_revised.pdf</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Covers what I interpret are defendable ‘baseline’ assumptions for both multifamily and single family (room by room!) scenarios.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Enjoy!</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">_Chris</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Chris Balbach, PE, CEM, CMVP, BEMP</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Vice President of Research and Development</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Performance Systems Development of NY, LLC</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">124 Brindley Street, Suite 4, Ithaca, NY 14850</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">http://www.psdconsulting.com</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">ph: (607)-327-1647</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>David Eldridge<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 08, 2010 4:04 PM<BR><B>To:</B> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>The only gray area to me is when the design would only partially provide the lighting – i.e. it isn’t a fair comparison for the proposed design at 0.5 W/ft2 if there is some expectation of receptacle-based fixtures to also be included as supplemental lighting sources.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>If the intention is for the proposed design to provide <U>all</U> of the lighting, then I believe it to be fair game. Especially hotel rooms, where the interior designer will have included receptacle-based fixtures if they are intended, it should be relatively clear what is included in the initial fit out.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>With apartments or condos I think you are less likely to have the design intended to cover 100% of the occupied lighting, but if that’s the case for your projects the standard seems to allow it.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Apartments are further complicated since the kitchen, bathroom, and corridor lighting is often completely provided, where the bedroom and living areas may not partially provided. However, the 1.1 W/ft2 (or 0.7 W/ft2 for multifamily) seems to be for a whole apartment including a weighting of all the different spaces in a typical apartment. Maybe the 0.7 W/ft2 is intended to allow for supplemental sources in a living room although this hasn’t been my take on it.</P>
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<P class=MsoNormal>David</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><U> </U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">David S. Eldridge, Jr., P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, HBDP</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: #244061">Grumman/Butkus Associates</SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><U> </U></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A> [mailto:<A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>James Hansen<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 08, 2010 2:43 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Aleka Pappas; <A href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Is there a CIR or something that says that residential LPD is unregulated?</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Table G3.1 is pretty specific about residential unit lighting for the proposed model (see below):</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><IMG id=Picture_x0020_4 border=0 src="cid:1.2148061658@web52806.mail.re2.yahoo.com" width=410 height=337></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">As long as the lighting is shown on building plans and permanently wired, you are allowed to use the actual lighting power. I have done 10+ residential projects where we’ve listed 1.1 W / sq ft for the living / bedroom areas for the baseline building, and used the actual density for the proposed model, and been approved. There certainly isn’t anything wrong with doing it the ECM route, but where, specifically, does it say you can’t take credit for any residential unit lighting efficiencies? </SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: teal">GHT Limited<BR></SPAN></B><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'">James Hansen</SPAN>, PE, LEED AP</B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Senior Associate</SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">1010 N. Glebe Rd, Suite 200</P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A> [mailto:<A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Aleka Pappas<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 08, 2010 3:25 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>That 1.1 W/SF from section 9 doesn't apply to apartment or condo dwelling units. Residential unit LPD is unregulated. We calculate savings for residential lighting as an exceptional calculation using a baseline LPD sited from research (which is kind of all over the place), and calculate savings for installed lighting systems that provide for full illuminance in specific spaces in the residential units. The lighting is scheduled on for 750 hours/ year (from an old LEED CIR). These calcs have been approved in the past for LEED EAc1 under NC 2.2 and 3.0.</P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Aleka Pappas</SPAN></B></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Building Energy Engineer<BR><BR>GROUP14 ENGINEERING, INC. </SPAN></B><BR><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Inspiring better buildings.</SPAN> <BR><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1325 E. 16th Ave, Denver, CO 80218</SPAN> <BR><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Direct: 720.221.1082/ Main: 303.861.2070/Fax: 303.830.2016<BR><A href="mailto:APappas@group14eng.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:APappas@group14eng.com">APappas@group14eng.com</A><BR><A href="http://www.group14eng.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.group14eng.com</A><BR></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><BR><I>Group 14 is the Carbon Group on the periodic table. Group14 Engineering offers building energy optimization, LEED coordination, commissioning, energy audits, LEED EBOM, and greenhouse gas analysis to reduce building and communities’ carbon footprint.</I></SPAN> </P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR>On 12/8/2010 7:25 AM, Bishop, Bill wrote: </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Joe,</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The dwelling units exception in Appendix G applies to “spaces in which lighting systems are connected via receptacles and are not shown or provided for on building plans.” You say you’ve worked hard to reduce lighting energy use, so presumably, you’ve designed the lighting for the spaces and it appears on the plans. Therefore, you are justified in using your actual lighting design for the proposed building model, and the LPD value for the baseline, which should be 1.1 W/ft<SUP>2</SUP> for living quarters per Table 9.6.1.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Bill</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">William</SPAN></B><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Bishop, PE, BEMP, LEED<SUP>®</SUP> AP </SPAN></B><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">|</SPAN></B><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP</SPAN></B></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Webdings; COLOR: green; FONT-SIZE: 18pt">P</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: green"> </SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: green; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">Sustainability – the forest AND the trees.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Webdings; COLOR: green; FONT-SIZE: 18pt"> P </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A> [<A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Nick Caton<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 07, 2010 7:16 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Joe Snider; <A href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Hey Joe,</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">If you’re looking to start somewhere… I know the NEC (NFPA 70) lays out a clear method of estimating dwelling unit lighting loads within Article 220. It starts off seeming high (3W/SF), but there are heavy demand factors that vary with the total calc’d load following within the same article: i.e. first 3,000 @ 100%... 3,000 to 120,000 @ 35% etc…</SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">While I’ve yet to fall back on the NEC as an energy modeling resource, I’m unaware of any better direct source for residential lighting loads… I imagine if you dig hard enough, one of the ASHRAE handbooks probably has something along these lines as well that might give you a different sum.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">I think ASHRAE Fundamentals does have a clear thing or two to say regarding what percentage of the lighting load should end up in a space vs. a plenum when you are talking about different lamp sources (incandescent vs. CFL…) – something to be aware of if you want to pursue this avenue.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">~Nick</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><IMG id=Picture_x005f_x0020_1 border=0 alt=cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB src="cid:3.2148061659@web52806.mail.re2.yahoo.com" width=119 height=37></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Stylus BT'; COLOR: #2d4d5e">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #cc9900; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">PROJECT ENGINEER</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Smith & Boucher Engineers</SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A> [<A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Joe Snider<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 07, 2010 5:24 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> [Equest-users] dwelling unit / residential LPDs</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>I have reviewed the archives and found a few threads on this topic but couldn’t find either good resolution, or a clear enough string to reply to, so I thought I would re-post:</P>
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<P class=MsoNormal>ASHRAE 90.1 App G doesn’t let you include dwelling units in typical LPD calcs. They say you need to plug in the same number for both proposed and baseline.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>But you can apparently pursue exceptional calcs to justify any cost savings in LEED. But you need to show some kind of analysis as to how you chose a baseline, such as a study or something presumably that shows typical w /sf for residential.</P>
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<P class=MsoNormal>We have worked very hard to reduce energy use in lighting in a few high-rise residential projects and would like to be able to receive credit for that on our energy model.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Has anyone been through this with USGBC and / or know of a good resource for a baseline w / sf for residential?</P>
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<P class=MsoNormal>In advance, thank you very much. Great forum.</P>
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<P class=MsoNormal>Sincerely,</P>
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<P class=MsoNormal>Joe Snider</P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #948a54; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt">---</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #948a54; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Joe Snider, AIA, LEED AP</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'; COLOR: #948a54; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt"> </SPAN></B></P>
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