<div>All/Nick -</div>
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<div>I thank you all for the valuable input. It cleared some of my doubts but also created more.</div>
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<div>I am not clear with zones, zone groups and assigning HVAC's to zone groups. If I have 70 apartments, each apartments is one zone, i group all these apartments into one zone group and assign the PTAC unit I have created.</div>
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<div>Does assigning the PTAC to the zone group mean that each zone within the zone group is assigned to one PTAC unit?</div>
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<div>Screen 13 and 14 in DD wizard seem to be conflicting. I entered all the data on screen 13 for the whole building. </div>
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<div>But after I group my zones on screen 14 the activity area allocation uses the percentages on screen 13 for each zone group.</div>
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<div>I am attaching screen shots of screen 13 and 14.</div>
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<div>Please advise on the above questions.</div>
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<div>Thanks for all the advise.</div>
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<div>Pranita.<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Nick Caton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Pranita et al,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">In this situation, you must either (A) define separate zones to define the multiple systems as they exist, or (B) stick to your guns (assumption of thermal equivalency), and further “lump together” the individual PTAC’s as large, “combined-equivalent” systems.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The first option would allow you to more easily specify the systems as they exist – individually and independent in operation of each other, will be more accurate if indeed the units have differing loads on an hourly basis, as John is cautioning, and will render any concerns of whether the assumption that the individual zones are thermally equal moot. </span></p>
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<div>If I have 70 apartments do I have to create 70 PTAC(Could I use Zone groups here). </div>
<div>Does the zone groups option assign each zone within the group one system each (of the system which is assigned to the zone group)</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If you are concerned that the “multiple systems in one zone” is critical for accuracy, you can always define the adjoining internal partitions as air walls to thermally connect the adjacent spaces (indirectly the corresponding zonal PTAC systems will work together to handle the combined spaces’ loads). This seems to match the real-world behavior you’re seeking to model.</span></p>
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<div>How could I assign mutliple systems to one zone?</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The second option will actually be harder for you (the modeler) in the long run, as you must average-together /sum the units’ parameters to come up with an equivalent collective system – efficiency/capacity/scheduling/etc… if the validity of the “thermally equivalent” assumption is questionable, so is the decision to have their systems to act as one – it’s your call.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Combining zones for thermal equivalency is a great technique when it saves you work and time, but the approach sometimes can result in more work than would otherwise be required in the long run. If/when actual system zoning is readily available at the wizard development stage of my models, I personally tend to use that information when defining zones, unless I’m certain the flexibility/accuracy benefits offered by a more zonally-accurate model will be unnecessary.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">~Nick</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><img alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" src="https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html?ui=2&ik=824189ed46&view=att&th=12cc2edd6859cf1a&attid=0.1&disp=emb&zw" width="119" height="37"></span><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="COLOR: #2d4d5e"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #cc9900; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">PROJECT ENGINEER</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Aulbach<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 07, 2010 3:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> pranita kothuru; equest-users<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Systems /Zoning question.</span></p></div></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Pranita:</p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Careful about "all units have the same thermodynamic conditions". End rooms have two exposures where those in the facing directions have one.</p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">John R. Aulbach, PE, CEM</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">Senior Energy Engineer</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-VARIANT: small-caps; COLOR: navy">Partner</span></b><b><span style="FONT-VARIANT: small-caps; COLOR: green"> </span></b><b><span style="FONT-VARIANT: small-caps; COLOR: #006600">Energy</span></b><b><span style="FONT-VARIANT: small-caps; COLOR: navy"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="COLOR: #1f497d">1990 E. Grand Avenue, El Segundo, CA 90245<br>W: 888-826-1216, X254| D: 310-765-7295 | F: 310-817-2745</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.ptrenergy.com/" target="_blank"><span>www.ptrenergy.com</span></a><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"> </span><a href="mailto:%7C%20jaulbach@ptrenergy.com" target="_blank"><span>| jaulbach@ptrenergy.com</span></a><span style="COLOR: #1f497d"></span></p>
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<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> pranita kothuru <<a href="mailto:pranita.kothuru@gmail.com" target="_blank">pranita.kothuru@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Tue, December 7, 2010 12:41:53 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Systems /Zoning question.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello All -</p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am modeling a multifamily 4 floors buildings in eQuest. I created seperate zones for corridors and living spaces. My living spaces have PTAC units and corridors have seperated HVAC system.</p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In DD wizard screen 1 what do I have to choose for 'System Per area'. </p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">All the living spaces were zoned as one big zone (considering that all units have same thermodynamic conditions).</p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If I choose system per zone, this can be wrong because I have more than one PTAC units in that given zone(as several apats were clubbed to be in one zone).</p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Please advice.</p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all"><br>-- </p></div>
<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><b><span style="COLOR: #006600">- Pranita </span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>
<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><b><font size="3"><font color="#006600" face="Calibri">- Pranita </font></font></b></p><br><br>