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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>I think that more than 1% of buildings will have times when the conditions in the plenums differ from the spaces below.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></P>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>For example:<o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1" class=MsoListParagraph><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">1)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>If you have recessed lights, some fraction of the heat gain from those lights will go straight to the plenum, rather than become a space load that needs to be cooled at the zone level. If you are economizer mode, this heat load could be directly exhausted, as opposed to needing to be cooled by the system or plant. If you are not in economizer mode, this heat load still contributes to the system load, but not to the zone load (i.e. less airflow required). <o:p></o:p></P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1" class=MsoListParagraph><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">2)<SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>If you have a roof (as most buildings do), the condition in the plenum immediately below that roof is going to differ from the space below. In a high-rise bldg, this only impacts the top floor, but it surely has a non-negligible impact for low-rise buildings. With a plenum, the roof conduction load (whether it is a heat load when it is hot and sunny outside or the opposite when it is cold and dark) will go straight to the plenum air rather than become a space load. This could affect economizer performance, zone sizing, zone loads, system airflow, system loads, etc… in real life too, not just in the simulation world.<o:p></o:p></P>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>No doubt there are other impacts. Granted, ignoring the plenum won’t likely make or break an energy model, but I actually think it is very easy to make plenums in eQUEST (the program does it for you!) so why not just put them in? <o:p></o:p></P>
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 13:46:11 -0800<BR>From: cmg750@gmail.com<BR>To: ncaton@smithboucher.com<BR>CC: equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR>Subject: Re: [Equest-users] windows on plenum walls<BR><BR>My attitude, which comes from being older than dirt and using DOE2 in it's infancy, is why have plenums at all? In fact, I am sure that at one point in the dark ages it was suggested in the manuals that, since plenums are generally the same temperature and space condition as the space below them, that they need not be input. Of course there are instances when this "rule" will need to be broken, as when you are specifying underfloor plenums and maybe some other cases. But the 99% of the times when that's not the case, it sure saves a lot of time, bother and space to not have plenums.<BR><BR>Carol<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=ecxgmail_quote>On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Nick Caton <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I’m not one to whine much, but I have run smack into this ‘feature’ enough times to issue a <S>complaint</S> “feature request” =). </SPAN></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Aside from losing custom window placements, many zones being lumped into one has caused me major headaches for other reasons… if you are in a proposed/baseline modeling situation, and don’t pick up on the problem until you are well into detailed edits (it may not be as obvious if you don’t see spandrel glass disappearing), it’s simply a daunting task to create/assign all the associated surfaces and spaces to make the models sync – something I wouldn’t wish on anyone.</SPAN></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Let it be on record that a very welcome feature in any future eQuest development would be an explicit option (radio button) to let the user decide whether individual plenums or cohesive 1-per-floor plenums are desired to be generated for the shell. This might logically show up in the wizard footprint/zone definition screen, immediately following the automatic/custom zone definition pull-down. </SPAN></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Does this seem feasible, or is there something fundamental to the way DOE2 operates that would get in the way? </SPAN></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">~Nick</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(45,77,94); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</SPAN></B><B><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(45,77,94)"></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(204,153,0); FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">PROJECT ENGINEER</SPAN></P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A> [mailto:<A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Pasha Korber-Gonzalez<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 02, 2010 10:20 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Mehta, Gaurav<BR><B>Cc:</B> eQUEST Users List
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<DIV class=h5><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Equest-users] windows on plenum walls</DIV></DIV></SPAN>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Ah-HA! Thank you Karen and Gaurav...I guess I didn't really pay attention to the system assignments in the wizard as I usually abandon the wizard after the custom windows anyway. I just like DDedit mode, better than wizard mode.</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Thanks again, as always this list is the BEST to turn to for support.</P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal>pkg</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Mehta, Gaurav <<A href="mailto:Gaurav.Mehta@stantec.com">Gaurav.Mehta@stantec.com</A>> wrote:</P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">When in the wizard you select or by default:</SPAN></P>
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<SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 7pt"> </SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">System by floor : it results in a single plenum for entire floor</SPAN><BR>
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<SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 7pt"> </SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">System per zone: it results in multiple plenums per zone.</SPAN><BR>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Gaurav Mehta, LEED® AP BD+C</SPAN></B><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><BR>Sustainable Building Analyst<BR>Stantec</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: gray; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">1932 First Avenue Suite 307<BR>Seattle WA 98101<BR>Ph: (206) 770-7779<BR>Fx: (206) 770-5941<BR><A href="mailto:Gaurav.Mehta@stantec.com">Gaurav.Mehta@stantec.com</A></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 13pt"><A href="http://www.stantec.com/" target=_blank><B><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(153,51,51); TEXT-DECORATION: none">stantec</SPAN></B><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(0,63,110); TEXT-DECORATION: none">.com</SPAN></A> </SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A> [mailto:<A href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Pasha Korber-Gonzalez<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:04 AM<BR><B>To:</B> eQUEST Users List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Equest-users] windows on plenum walls</SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>So, I figured out where my plenum windows were going...Because eQuest set up a single plenum for my entire floor plan, as opposed to multilple plenum spaces for each Zoned space that I have.</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>My new question that I haven't been able to figure out is this:</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>When (or how to determine when) eQuest will create a single plenum for the entire floor plan, and when does it create a single plenum space for each space zoned in my floor plan?</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Sometimes I'll set up a model and it will do one approach and then sometimes I'll set up a model and it will create a single space plenum??</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Any hints anyone can give me are appreciated.</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>thanks,</P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=ecxMsoNormal>Pasha</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Pasha Korber-Gonzalez <<A href="mailto:pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com">pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</P>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Hi All,</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>I've always been able to do this before, but its not letting me do it today on a model I am working on...</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>I'm am trying to place some windows on the plenum walls. In real life these are actually a spandrel panel. I'm in the custom window placement and when I place the window on the plenum wall it shows up in the custom window screen, but when I go to check my 3D view, the window on the plenum wall is not displayed.</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>Has anyone had this problem before? I've always been able to place windows there before (I specifically remember being able to do it in the window wizard for 3.63b version. I know I can verify thier existance when I move to DDedit, but I'm just trying to be more efficient using my wizard tools first.</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>thanks,</P></DIV>
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal>pkg</P></DIV></DIV>
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