When you want to learn to swim with the sharks, you'll learn how to edit in BDL.<br><br>Carol<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Nick Caton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Kristy!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">A majority of the variables
affecting fan power (scheduling, kW/CFM…) aren’t explicitly specifiable
until you are in detailed mode.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">That said, a CV heatpump system
may well consume less fan power than a VAV system as you (1) don’t have as
many fans in quantity and (2) your CV fan may be running intermittently whereas
a VAV system has a main fan running constantly / on a schedule. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Note that by limiting yourself
to the wizards you are only able to specify inexact “standard/high/premium”
efficiencies, whereas if you moved into detailed you could specify these to
your liking to get a more accurate reading on total fan energy consumption.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If you are unhappy that the
cooling consumptions reported aren’t equal, adjusting the corresponding cooling
efficiencies is probably about all you can do to affect that if you’re
stuck in the wizards. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Fundamentally, all things being
equal however, a VAV system with reheat (?) is probably going to consume more
energy cooling supply air, as you’re now providing cooling to supply air
that needs to be reheated in some zones during certain seasons. What you
gain in occupant comfort you might lose in cooling consumption!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Kristy, the following is less
for you and more for the group at large, as I understand you’re a veteran
here ;):</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Whenever your “wizards
only” model is not behaving properly and time permits, I’d
encourage you to temporarily pop into detailed mode to explore everything the
wizards are really specifying as a means of learning the why’s and
wherefore’s of your modeled behavior. As newer modelers learn
eQuest/DOE2, the wizards can be viewed as something like a set of training
wheels that eventually you need to remove before you can really compete in a
race. For all they do to simplify and streamline creating a model, the
wizards are frankly limiting. Until you can swim in the deep end of the
pool, you can’t dive to the deepest depths.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Experienced modelers will
intentionally decide to use “wizard-bound” models to explore things
in a time-efficient manner, but that decision hinges on knowing and accepting
in what fashion the variables are limited and determining those limitations are
acceptable for the study at-hand. Do not avoid detailed mode based solely
on any level of discomfort you have with the level of control you are granted –
dive in! In the worst case, you can always pop back to the wizards.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB7AA3.4C0C8D20" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" height="37" width="119"></span><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">direct 913
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">Check out
our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;"> </span></u><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Walson,
Kristy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 02, 2010 2:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> eQUEST Users List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] DD Wizard: Discrepancies between Proposed
andBaseline</span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello Equest friends,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am working in the DD Wizard (and trying to not move into
Detailed Mode), building the Proposed and Baseline models for a project that is
in the middle of design. I took the Proposed model file and did a
"Save As" to create the Baseline model, so I know that the two models
are starting out the same. My Proposed HVAC system is a Packaged VAV with
Electric Heat and my Baseline system is a Packaged Heat Pump Constant
Volume. When I only change the system type in the Baseline model from the
Proposed Pkgd VAV to the Constant Vol. HP, my annual energy consumption for
cooling reduces in the Baseline model (I would expect no change), the heating
consumption reduces (this is to be expected), <u>and the fan power goes down in
the baseline</u>. I can't figure out, when I change from a VAV to a
Constant Volume system why the fan power would ever go down. I was hoping
to make up for the HP's better heating efficiency through reduced fan
power. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This just doesn't make sense to me. Remember, I'm
still in the DD Wizard and only have limited access to changes. Can
anyone explain this to me and offer advice on how to achieve more predictable
results? Thanks in advance for the help.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Kristy M. Walson, PE, LEED AP</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Mechanical
Engineer / Sustainable Design</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://www.tlc-engineers.com" target="_blank">www.tlc-engineers.com</a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.tlc-engineers.com/" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration: none;"><img src="" alt="http://www.tlc-engineers.com/images/TLC_Sig_Loc_Block.gif" border="0" height="49" width="700"></span></a></p>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Carol Gardner PE<br>
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