I agree with every thing Nick said. I'd add that if you want to calibrate your model to actual utility bills a very important thing to understand is how the building is used, i.e., when are people arriving? Leaving? How and when are lights, equipment, etc. turned on? How is the HVAC system operated? All of this information goes into schedules which modify the number of people (total bldg population), w/sf of light and HVAC systems. These schedules are the "art" of calibration and the most powerful tool to use. The other thing that will impact your calibration will be the weather file, which you unfortunately can't control unless you want to create your own file. Overkill.<br>
<br>This being said, if you are just examining a condition like a window change out you don't really need to calibrate, I don't think. As Nick said in his first response you're just looking at a before and after condition - existing window vs new window so I don't think having a precise model of your building will matter so much.<br>
<br>Maybe others will disagree. If so bring it on!<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Nick Caton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Sounds like you’ve run head-on into a conundrum we all continually
face as energy modelers – how accurate is accurate enough?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The savings generated by any glazing retrofit ultimately boil down
to altering the envelope loads the building has to deal with (solar/conductive)*.
Your real goal is to have those loads’ magnitudes in the right ballpark
before doing a comparison.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You should definitely try to use the real-world utility rates, location,
geometries and envelope constructions of the existing building for this study
when making your baseline in the wizards. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">To what degree you should calibrate your baseline results
depends on your time available, ability (what you can do in that time) and what
degree of accuracy is desired in the results – it’s ultimately your
call. If you’re a total beginner without time to burn, I’d
suggest at a bare minimum to collect and try to roughly match some historical
utility bills on an annual basis. If the actual building spends $200,000
a year on gas/electricity and your generic baseline spits out half that, you
will definitely want to improve your model before generating/sharing any
results. This would provide a (rough) measure of whether your model
is accurately ball parking the envelope loads correctly.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You’re correct regarding the overall procedure: make the
baseline first, check and calibrate its behavior to the degree you feel appropriate,
then change the glazing for comparative results. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You might do well to read up on parametric runs first to save
yourself time and streamline the process – then you can simultaneously
explore multiple alternatives within one file. Also don’t miss the
significance of the “use floor multipliers” checkbox in the wizards
whenever doing high-rise building models.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">*… unless there’s daylighting controls involved too,
in which case you should collect as much info regarding those lightings systems/controls
as you can to match in your baseline as well!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB75C5.5A9459F0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" height="37" width="119"></span><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;"> </span></u><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Darrell Cherry
[mailto:<a href="mailto:DCherry@jeberkowitz.com" target="_blank">DCherry@jeberkowitz.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 27, 2010 10:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] newbie question on simple modeling</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Nick, thank you. What specific parameters would you recommend
I obtain from building owner in order to provide more realistic analysis?
Rates? HVAC plant and zoning info? Time-of-use rates? Etc.?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I assume what I need to do is create a baseline of the current
building and its current energy costs/rates and after that is done I will
simply change the one component I plan to affect; i.e. glazing, and then run
the comparison.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Cordially,</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Darrell Cherry</span></b><span style="color: navy;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">|</span><i><span style="color: navy;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Projects Manager</span></i><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">JE Berkowitz, LP |</span><i><span style="color: navy;"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Architectural
Glass Since 1920</span></i></b><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">One Gateway Boulevard | Pedricktown, NJ 08067</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">T</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> 800.257.7827 x207|</span><b><span style="color: navy;"> </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">F</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">
856.299.4344 |</span><b><span style="color: navy;"> </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">C</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">
856.229.1598</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
<a href="mailto:dcherry@jeberkowitz.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">dcherry@jeberkowitz.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> |</span><span style="color: navy;"> <a href="http://www.jeberkowitz.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">www.jeberkowitz.com</span></a>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> </span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">* * * * * *</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: navy;"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">* * * *
*</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: navy;"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE * * * * * * *</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: navy;"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">* * * *
*</span></i></b><span style="color: navy;"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">This email including any files transmitted with it, are
confidential and</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they are</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete
it, in its</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">entirety, from your system.</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center">
<hr align="center" width="100%" size="2">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Nick Caton
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 27, 2010 11:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Darrell Cherry; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] newbie question on simple modeling</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">“Is
this just too simplistic for eQuest?”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">…There’s a question we don’t see often
here =)!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">eQuest can be used to quickly build a generic 19-story office
building from the wizards. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">eQuest can easily be used to compare the effects of two glazing
materials.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">What eQuest cannot do (nor any other software), is calibrate to <u>accurately</u>
model “current annual energy costs” and “improved”
costs with only one bit of information – glass type. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">As long as you intend to estimate “relative annual energy
savings,” you should be fine using eQuest to make as simplified a
comparison as you might desire. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Just keep in mind: the less effort spent attempting to match
reality with your baseline model, the more of an estimate the whole exercise
really is.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">~Nick</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB75C5.5A9459F0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" border="0" height="37" width="119"></span><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style="color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);">PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;"> </span></u><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Darrell
Cherry<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] newbie question on simple modeling</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I
need to utilize eQuest for basically one simple purpose; i.e. I am looking to
change ONLY the makeup of the windows in a 19-story office building from
monolithic glazing to a triple-glazed system. The frame WILL NOT change.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">What
I need to model is the current annual energy costs vs ne costs with improved
fenestration system.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Is
this just too simplistic for eQuest?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users mailing list<br>
<a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Carol Gardner PE<br>
<div style="visibility: hidden; left: -5000px;" id="avg_ls_inline_popup"></div><style type="text/css">#avg_ls_inline_popup{position: absolute;z-index: 9999;padding: 0px 0px;margin-left: 0px;margin-top: 0px;overflow: hidden;word-wrap: break-word;color: black;font-size: 10px;text-align: left;line-height: 130%;}</style>