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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’ve gone both ways over time and changed my mind a few
times… Here’s my current take:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Whenever the proposed design is available for me to reference, I
always prefer to start with the proposed model and then follow up with the
baseline. The main reason in my mind: the familiarity you gain with the
proposed design (building/systems/loads and so on) by building that model first
really streamlines the creation of a baseline model. On the flip side and
in my experience, starting with a baseline can sometimes require a lot of
cross-referencing to ensure you define zoning patterns that will work for the proposed
design systems. Also, if and when you may need to calibrate the building loads/scheduling
from the library defaults to match the proposed design systems’
anticipated values, it’s easier to calibrate one model and copy that work
vs. calibrating two at once. I personally find it annoying when I am juggling
two open models and editing both when it could have been avoided.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In a conceptual stage of new construction design, my “baseline
models” are more often exploring a select few aspects of design at a time…
and reporting modeled behavior in a relative sense against defined alternatives,
not against a full-out 90.1 baseline. It’s pretty hard to frame a response
to a query during a conceptual stage about window materials as “you’ll
get 3.2 LEED points with Option A” when you don’t know the rest of
the proposed systems/design – or even the building shape sometimes!
I much prefer to address such queries with relative gains, and advise what will
tend towards a better final design. The advantage to this approach is that
time spent coming up with arbitrary guesses at final proposed/baseline
performance can instead be spent helping guide the various parties towards an
ideal final product in a quick fashion. The disadvantage is we don’t
typically know quite where the chips may fall until we are past the conceptual
design stages, but my gut tells me you really can’t really know that until
ink starts hitting paper, so to speak.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>3.64’s LEED analysis feature is intended to streamline the
process of creating a baseline from a proposed model, but it’s best
summed as a “feature in progress.” At best right now it
creates a partial baseline model – with extra work required to wrap it up.
Be cautioned there are bugs in the current iteration of this tool that
may result in getting nothing for your efforts – don’t use this on
a project with a tight deadline until you’ve tried it at least once.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I would suggest creating your first model to cut your teeth on
this feature from the 3.64 DD wizards. 3.63 models can be cranked through
this tool, but they miss out on a good bit of the streamlining as they don’t
have a variety of 90.1 compliance variables defined in the wizards – I’m
not convinced large 3.63-based models really can save much time from this tool
as a result. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Outside of new construction or LEED, the term “baseline
model” typically means something much different from the context of a
90.1 compliant building – it means what’s existing. Those
projects by contrast always involve building the baseline first in my
experience.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB75B1.FC195190" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style='font-size:
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style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul
Diglio<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 26, 2010 10:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Pasha Korber-Gonzalez<br>
<b>Cc:</b> eQUEST Users List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Baseline or Proposed? Chicken or the egg?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Pasha:<br>
<br>
I have not had the opportunity yet to create a model in 3.64. I tried the
90.1 compliance on a few 3.63 projects and came up with all kinds of odd errors
that I did not research.<br>
<br>
The models that I tried were very unusual, for example two sources of exhaust
air and three sources of heating per zone. Naturally, I had to fudge the
systems to model a thermally equivalent mechanical system and work up
exceptional calculations for GBCI.<br>
<br>
Perhaps the compliance works well with standard type systems. Do you know
if the compliance in 3.64 will accept a 3.63 project seamlessly?<br>
<br>
You might be correct that 3.64 is intended to create a baseline from the
proposed. My initial take was that the compliance tool would compare the
baseline that I create to 90.1 specs and verify if I have modeled this
correctly.<br>
<br>
What is your experience? Can you create a baseline model from a unusual
proposed model using the compliance tool?<br>
<br>
Paul Diglio<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Pasha Korber-Gonzalez
<pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com><br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Diglio <paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net><br>
<b>Cc:</b> eQUEST Users List <equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tue, October 26, 2010 11:06:44 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Baseline or Proposed? Chicken or the egg?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>A couple of further questions then:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>if you are doing a LEED (or other) compliance
model (without design analysis) then do you build the proposed or baseline
model first?<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>With eQuest 3.64 doesn't it create a baseline
model file based on building your proposed model in eQuest first? I
thought that was the function/convenience of the compliance tool.
Of course the baseline model file needs to be checked and calibrated but
the general intent was to streamline the creation of a baseline model file
in response to the inputs for the proposed design. Is this correct
logic?<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>pkg<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Paul Diglio <<a
href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Pasha:<br>
<br>
I always start with the baseline model because I am usually hired to provide
design suggestions. By modeling the baseline first I become familiar with
the 90.1 requirements for the type of building and systems we are working on
and I can make suggestions that will increase the efficiency of the facility
above and beyond the 90.1 standard.<br>
<br>
For example, if my total exhaust air for a zone is less than 5,000 CFM, 90.1
does not require exhaust energy recovery, but by implementing this option in
the proposed model we can achieve a greater reduction compared to the 90.1
baseline.<br>
<br>
Paul Diglio<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Pasha
Korber-Gonzalez <<a href="mailto:pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com"
target="_blank">pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> eQUEST Users List <<a
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tue, October 26, 2010 8:27:55 PM <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Baseline or Proposed? Chicken or the egg?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Out of curiosity do you build your proposed model first or
your baseline model first?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I build my proposed model first. This is the way that
I was taught and the way I learned that makes sense to me in terms of
"backing-off" the performance values to that equal of the baseline
values. Or in the case of different types of HVAC systems I prefer to
build the proposed model first and then do a "save as" to a baseline
file to make all the appropriate baseline input adjustments. This just
seems most efficient for my modeling approach.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>What's your approach?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>pkg<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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