Yes, I would do take the xx% reduction and apply it to the existing usage. My thought process would be that since I am effectively only reducing the loads to the space - heating and cooling - and not making any other changes that I am just dealing with a delta in the usage. So if I figured out what that was for a fairly similar building and then used the reduction percent I should be good. I good get a little more fancy and figure the xx% reduction in cooling and the yy% reduction in heating, if I had actual usage info about the two, that is.<br>
<br>Carol<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Alex Krickx <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:akrickx@seriousmaterials.com">akrickx@seriousmaterials.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Carol,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So I have a question about what you’ve said:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Let’s take your example of investigating a window change,
and let’s make it for an existing building. Let’s put in the right
building type (say office) and the right location, building
shape/size/orientation, update the occupancy schedules, and put in the right
HVAC system type – and then leave the rest as defaults. If you were
to model the existing windows vs. improved windows, I would guess that the natural
gas consumption in this model would be 50% or even less than the actual building’s
consumption. The existing system will have inefficiencies that eQUEST will not
assume as a default.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">In any case, your result can be described in two ways- an XX%
reduction from existing windows, and YY-MBTU reduction. Which of those is more
representative of what the savings will be.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If the model’s consumption is less than the actual
buildings, and you present savings in the YY-MBTU format, then you are probably
underpredicting how much energy could be saved. In that case, would you take
the XX% savings you’ve just calculated and apply that to the existing
building’s consumption?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’m not talking about sizing systems here, but more trying
to examine the impacts of investigating energy-savings options.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Just interested in your 2¢.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Cheers,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Alex </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol
Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 27, 2010 2:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] newbie question on simple modeling</span></p>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">I agree with every thing Nick
said. I'd add that if you want to calibrate your model to actual utility bills
a very important thing to understand is how the building is used, i.e., when
are people arriving? Leaving? How and when are lights, equipment, etc. turned
on? How is the HVAC system operated? All of this information goes into
schedules which modify the number of people (total bldg population), w/sf of
light and HVAC systems. These schedules are the "art" of calibration
and the most powerful tool to use. The other thing that will impact your
calibration will be the weather file, which you unfortunately can't control
unless you want to create your own file. Overkill.<br>
<br>
This being said, if you are just examining a condition like a window change out
you don't really need to calibrate, I don't think. As Nick said in his first
response you're just looking at a before and after condition - existing window
vs new window so I don't think having a precise model of your building will
matter so much.<br>
<br>
Maybe others will disagree. If so bring it on!</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Nick Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>> wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Sounds like you’ve run head-on
into a conundrum we all continually face as energy modelers – how
accurate is accurate enough?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The savings generated by any glazing
retrofit ultimately boil down to altering the envelope loads the building has
to deal with (solar/conductive)*. Your real goal is to have those
loads’ magnitudes in the right ballpark before doing a comparison.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You should definitely try to use the
real-world utility rates, location, geometries and envelope constructions of
the existing building for this study when making your baseline in the
wizards. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">To what degree you should calibrate your
baseline results depends on your time available, ability (what you can do in
that time) and what degree of accuracy is desired in the results –
it’s ultimately your call. If you’re a total beginner without
time to burn, I’d suggest at a bare minimum to collect and try to roughly
match some historical utility bills on an annual basis. If the actual
building spends $200,000 a year on gas/electricity and your generic baseline spits
out half that, you will definitely want to improve your model before
generating/sharing any results. This would provide a (rough)
measure of whether your model is accurately ball parking the envelope loads
correctly.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You’re correct regarding the overall
procedure: make the baseline first, check and calibrate its behavior to the
degree you feel appropriate, then change the glazing for comparative
results. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You might do well to read up on
parametric runs first to save yourself time and streamline the process –
then you can simultaneously explore multiple alternatives within one
file. Also don’t miss the significance of the “use floor
multipliers” checkbox in the wizards whenever doing high-rise building
models.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">*… unless there’s daylighting
controls involved too, in which case you should collect as much info regarding
those lightings systems/controls as you can to match in your baseline as well!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB75EB.E08D44B0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" border="0" height="37" width="119"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);">PROJECT ENGINEER</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;"> </span></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-color: -moz-use-text-color;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
Darrell Cherry [mailto:<a href="mailto:DCherry@jeberkowitz.com" target="_blank">DCherry@jeberkowitz.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 27, 2010 10:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] newbie question on simple modeling</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Nick, thank you. What specific
parameters would you recommend I obtain from building owner in order to provide
more realistic analysis? Rates? HVAC plant and zoning info?
Time-of-use rates? Etc.?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">I assume what I need to do is create a
baseline of the current building and its current energy costs/rates and after
that is done I will simply change the one component I plan to affect; i.e.
glazing, and then run the comparison.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: navy;"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Cordially,</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Darrell Cherry</span></b><span style="color: navy;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">|</span><i><span style="color: navy;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Projects
Manager</span></i><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">JE Berkowitz, LP |</span><i><span style="color: navy;"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Architectural Glass Since 1920</span></i></b><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">One Gateway Boulevard |
Pedricktown, NJ 08067</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">T</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> 800.257.7827 x207|</span><b><span style="color: navy;"> </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">F</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> 856.299.4344 |</span><b><span style="color: navy;"> </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">C</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> 856.229.1598</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
<a href="mailto:dcherry@jeberkowitz.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">dcherry@jeberkowitz.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> |</span><span style="color: navy;"> <a href="http://www.jeberkowitz.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">www.jeberkowitz.com</span></a>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;"> </span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">* * * * * *</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: navy;"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">* * * * *</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: navy;"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE * * * * * * *</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: navy;"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">* * * * *</span></i></b><span style="color: navy;"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">This email including any files
transmitted with it, are confidential and</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">intended solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">addressed. If you have
received this email in error please delete it, in its</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: black;">entirety, from your system.</span><span style="color: navy;"> <br>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center">
<hr align="center" width="100%" size="2">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Nick
Caton [mailto:<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 27, 2010 11:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Darrell Cherry; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] newbie question on simple modeling</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">“Is this just too simplistic for eQuest?”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">…There’s a question we
don’t see often here =)!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">eQuest can be used to quickly build a
generic 19-story office building from the wizards. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">eQuest can easily be used to compare the
effects of two glazing materials.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">What eQuest cannot do (nor any other
software), is calibrate to <u>accurately</u> model “current annual energy
costs” and “improved” costs with only one bit of information
– glass type. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">As long as you intend to estimate
“relative annual energy savings,” you should be fine using eQuest
to make as simplified a comparison as you might desire. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Just keep in mind: the less effort spent
attempting to match reality with your baseline model, the more of an estimate
the whole exercise really is.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">~Nick</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><img src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB75EB.E08D44B0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" border="0" height="37" width="119"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(204, 153, 0);">PROJECT ENGINEER</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">25501 west valley parkway</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">olathe ks 66061</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">direct 913 344.0036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">fax 913 345.0617</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(45, 77, 94);">Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;"> </span></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-color: -moz-use-text-color;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Darrell Cherry<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] newbie question on simple modeling</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I need to utilize eQuest for basically one simple
purpose; i.e. I am looking to change ONLY the makeup of the windows in a
19-story office building from monolithic glazing to a triple-glazed
system. The frame WILL NOT change.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">What I need to model is the current annual energy
costs vs ne costs with improved fenestration system.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Is this just too simplistic for eQuest?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users mailing list<br>
<a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE</p>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Carol Gardner PE<br>
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