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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>A colleague of mine spotted that it appears that the model is
cooling the outside air twice. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The outside air was assigned to the dummy zone and all of the
zones of the secondary system, as I thought this was the correct way to do a
DOAS and that the DOAS would override the secondary system OA reqs. But, it
appears they just add, so upon deletion of the OA in the secondary systems
spaces the cooling load matches more closely. (The slight increase left
is due to the ERV serving a system that has zones in heating and cooling and
there is some heating before re-cooling that is taking place). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Is it correct to only have the OA in the DOAS and blank out the
zone OA?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Joe Fleming<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#333333'>E.I., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#333333'>Mechanical Engineer I<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#006363'>TLC Engineering for Architecture<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#006363'>Your 2030 Challenge Partner</span></b><b><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#006363'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>800 Fairway Drive, Suite 250<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Deerfield Beach, FL 33441-1816<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>954-418-9096</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.tlc-engineers.com">www.tlc-engineers.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.tlc-engineers.com/"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";text-decoration:
none'><img border=0 width=700 height=49 id="_x0000_i1026"
src="cid:image001.gif@01CB7045.BD51CC60"
alt="http://www.tlc-engineers.com/images/TLC_Sig_Loc_Block.gif"></span></a><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Carol Gardner
[mailto:cmg750@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Fleming, Joe<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] DOAS results<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Are you willing to share your
.inp and .pd2 input decks? I would take a quick look if you are.<br>
<br>
Carol<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Fleming, Joe <<a
href="mailto:joe.fleming@tlc-eng.com">joe.fleming@tlc-eng.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
know this topic has been beaten like..., but the results I have been getting
for the ## hours on a model with several DOAS's are horrible, (getting a little
delirious at this point). There is a DOAS for each system with a
different schedule than the next. Each DOAS has an ERV which operates
with a DH of 2.0btuh/hr in cool/heat and float. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
feel like the problem is within the dummy zone or the schedules. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>When
I assign the DOAS air to the SZRH unit as OA from System the cooling load
shoots up by about 50%, (even when I remove the ERV the results are similar,
increased cooling). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
building is in a moderate climate zone.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
DOAS fan schedule is set to on at the same time as the SZRH unit.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
heating energy is reduced when I assign the DOAS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
problems I see are, to list a few;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
dummy zone has all of its hours outside of the throttling range no matter how
it is assigned and no matter what the t-stat schedule I assign.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
load doesn't budge once I remove the DOAS from the model, only when I add it to
the SZRH unit as OA from system.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
DOAS does not show any heating load, only cooling load all year long (again
moderate climate with cold seasons).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>DOAS's
have been done before without this problem, maybe adding too much info this
time.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><u>*How
is the DOAS operating in eQuest?</u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Taking
a stab I assume it is bringing in the OA and cooling it or heating it to
whatever the temperature set-points are. Depending on the schedules the
temp could be floating most of the time. The air is then brought into
your secondary system at set-point or floating point. The OA from the
zones attached to the secondary system are replaced by the OA from the DOAS.
(?) Then the secondary system does its thing as usual. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>(Not
sure what is happening with the dummy zone? Does DZ care it gets any
air? Looks like it does because of the unmet hours. Does the
secondary system pick up the air from the DOAS after it has traveled through a
space and picked up load? The dummy zone has no load but it's temp is
always above 85.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Now
for the cooling to be increasing, the air must be coming in to the secondary
system warmer than usual during cooling hours. (usual being the raw
temperature of uncond outdoor air). But the results seem extreme.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>For
the heating to be decreasing the air must be coming in warmer than usual for
the secondary system, which it is based on SS-O.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Does
anyone have experience with this and what could be going wrong? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><u>*Or,
can someone link me to a basic DOAS goby? </u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
have searched the archives but many of the DOAS questions have gone unanswered
in the past.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thank
You<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>Joe
Fleming</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#333333'>E.I., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#333333'>Mechanical Engineer I</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='color:#006363'>TLC Engineering for Architecture<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#006363'>Your 2030 Challenge
Partner</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>800 Fairway Drive, Suite 250</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Deerfield Beach, FL 33441-1816</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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