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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Is it correct then that one cannot use an ERV with a DOAS? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Based on below, if I have it right, the borrowing system will get
its entering OA conditions from the RA temp of the dummy zone. If one
wanted to supply conditioned air to a unit from a DOAS then they would need to
set the space conditions of the dummy zone down to 55F or similar? If you
set the dummy zone temperature range to be what you need for the given design,
so that your "return" air or exhaust air to the ERV is of the correct
enthalpy. How would the DOAS operate to maintain these conditions when
the dummy zone has no load? Would the ERV exhaust conditions be simulated
correctly?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It is appearing that eQuest does not allow much modeling
flexibility when trying to simulate a DOAS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Joe Fleming<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#333333'>E.I., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#333333'>Mechanical Engineer I<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#006363'>TLC Engineering for Architecture<br>
</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#006363'>Your 2030 Challenge Partner</span></b><b><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#006363'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>800 Fairway Drive, Suite 250<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Deerfield Beach, FL 33441-1816<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.tlc-engineers.com/"><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";text-decoration:
none'><img border=0 width=700 height=49 id="_x0000_i1026"
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style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Brian
Fountain<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 20, 2010 12:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] DOAS results<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Remember that eQUEST doesn't <i>really</i> do DOAS
yet. All it does is set the OA temperature for the borrowing zone using
the OA-FROM keyword to the RA temperature of the "lending" system
(which is why it has to come first on the system list). <br>
<br>
I really hope this changes in future releases! <br>
<br>
On 10/19/2010 7:25 PM, Carol Gardner wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Are you willing to share your
.inp and .pd2 input decks? I would take a quick look if you are.<br>
<br>
Carol<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Fleming, Joe <<a
href="mailto:joe.fleming@tlc-eng.com">joe.fleming@tlc-eng.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
know this topic has been beaten like..., but the results I have been getting
for the ## hours on a model with several DOAS's are horrible, (getting a little
delirious at this point). There is a DOAS for each system with a
different schedule than the next. Each DOAS has an ERV which operates
with a DH of 2.0btuh/hr in cool/heat and float. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
feel like the problem is within the dummy zone or the schedules. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>When
I assign the DOAS air to the SZRH unit as OA from System the cooling load
shoots up by about 50%, (even when I remove the ERV the results are similar,
increased cooling). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
building is in a moderate climate zone.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
DOAS fan schedule is set to on at the same time as the SZRH unit.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
heating energy is reduced when I assign the DOAS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
problems I see are, to list a few;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
dummy zone has all of its hours outside of the throttling range no matter how
it is assigned and no matter what the t-stat schedule I assign.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
load doesn't budge once I remove the DOAS from the model, only when I add it to
the SZRH unit as OA from system.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The
DOAS does not show any heating load, only cooling load all year long (again
moderate climate with cold seasons).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>DOAS's
have been done before without this problem, maybe adding too much info this
time.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><u>*How
is the DOAS operating in eQuest?</u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Taking
a stab I assume it is bringing in the OA and cooling it or heating it to
whatever the temperature set-points are. Depending on the schedules the
temp could be floating most of the time. The air is then brought into
your secondary system at set-point or floating point. The OA from the
zones attached to the secondary system are replaced by the OA from the DOAS.
(?) Then the secondary system does its thing as usual. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>(Not
sure what is happening with the dummy zone? Does DZ care it gets any
air? Looks like it does because of the unmet hours. Does the
secondary system pick up the air from the DOAS after it has traveled through a
space and picked up load? The dummy zone has no load but it's temp is
always above 85.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Now
for the cooling to be increasing, the air must be coming in to the secondary
system warmer than usual during cooling hours. (usual being the raw
temperature of uncond outdoor air). But the results seem extreme.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>For
the heating to be decreasing the air must be coming in warmer than usual for
the secondary system, which it is based on SS-O.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Does
anyone have experience with this and what could be going wrong? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><u>*Or,
can someone link me to a basic DOAS goby? </u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
have searched the archives but many of the DOAS questions have gone unanswered
in the past.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thank
You<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>Joe
Fleming</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#333333'>E.I., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#333333'>Mechanical Engineer I</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>TLC
Engineering for Architecture<br>
</b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#006363'>Your 2030 Challenge Partner</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>800 Fairway Drive, Suite 250</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Deerfield Beach, FL 33441-1816</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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auto;text-align:right'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'>direct: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>954-418-4591</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;text-align:right'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#333333'>website: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=bottom style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="http://www.tlc-engineers.com"
target="_blank">www.tlc-engineers.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a
href="http://www.tlc-engineers.com/" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:
none'><img border=0 width=700 height=49 id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:image001.gif@01CB705D.8E728390"
alt="http://www.tlc-engineers.com/images/TLC_Sig_Loc_Block.gif"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Equest-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
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