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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Kathryn,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I may be mistaken, but I think you’re causing yourself to
run in circles by trying to think of DOAS systems as they exist in the real
world instead of how we can account for in eQuest. I did this for a long time
before “getting it…”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>To answer one of your first questions, take another look at the
second screen where you define ERU components under “cond/frost control.”
You can explicitly model pre-heating the OA before the ERU wheel/HX with either
electricity or HW to either a floating or fixed setpoint.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Carol is cautioning you to avoid specifying too many systems –
and you may have inadvertently hit the nail on the head with your last words “...come
up with an equivalent.” <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>While your real world system looks something like:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>DOAS preconditioning box </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>à</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> ERU box with a wheel </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>à</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> big AHU
box </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>à</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>àà</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> multiple
Fancoil boxes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Your eQuest equivalent to the above is ideally:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>One system, with most components/airflows defined at the system
level and a some at the zonal level.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Trying to make the “real world” distinction between
the various parts of your system will require you to jump through hoops to
ensure the correct quantities of OA and EA are going through the various
components. It’s conceptually possible with a dummy
zone/loads/scheduling and a lot of coffee, but if you really try to model that
may distinct systems and make them all dance in a line for a single group of
zones, you’re bound to lose sleep and grow some gray hairs in the process.
This has been my experience.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think you’ll also find eQuest can indeed model desiccant
energy recovery very well, with a lot of flexibility, so take heart!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
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color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB6F80.CBC407B0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style='font-size:
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style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathryn
Kerns<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carol Gardner<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Multiple DOAS in Series<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div id=idOWAReplyText11307>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Carol, I am not sure I understand what you mean. Can you draw a
picture or explain further? If I have one DOAS, how do I go about specifying
entering conditions for its ERV other than outside air and exhaust?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
am also wondering just exactly what happens to DOAS supply air. According to
the literature it appears that the outside air is fed through the DOAS, which
then heats it and cools it via the DOAS entered heating and cooling supply
temperatures, and then the supply air is passed
to the associated space air (which I assume has the normal space
temperature range of 70 to 78) which it then transmitted to the downstream
terminal units as their primary air. At least I think this is what I think I
read.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Does anyone else have a different interpretation? Maybe we
are passing the DOAS supply air to the terminal units at the supply
heating and cooling temperatures the same way the DOAS supply
air gets passed to its associated space?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If I figure this out, I will share the results. Desiccant
systems like the one I am modeling are being used more and more often as energy
savers in humid climates. Somehow we need to figure this out or come up
with an equivalent.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Carol Gardner [mailto:cmg750@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Mon 10/18/2010 7:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kathryn Kerns<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Multiple DOAS in Series</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi Kathryn,<br>
<br>
Just a couple of quick thoughts. Do you need to physically specify 2 DOAS
units? Could you just specify one with an ERV and with the entering conditions
of the first unit and the leaving conditions of the second unit? I'm not
thinking of any downside to doing it that way but I'm not deep in it like you
are. Let me know what you think.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Carol<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Kathryn Kerns <<a
href="mailto:kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com">kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Has anyone ever tried
to model 2 DOAS units in series? I have successfully modeled a single
DOAS/multiple fan coil system, but I have never tried to string two DOAS units
together by feeding the supply air output of the first DOAS into the outside
air input of the second DOAS. The reason I ask is that I am looking for a way
to model a DOAS that has an ERV device located downstream after a heating and a
cooling coil. Does anyone know whether DOE-2 would treat the system
exhaust air coming back through the second DOAS ERV any differently than the
exhaust air going back through a single DOAS with an ERV unit? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Assuming that this
works, does anybody know how to add heat to, or manually raise the temperature
of, the ERV exhaust air? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I am thinking if I
can model a multiple DOAS with an elevated exhaust temperature, I might be able
to mimic a desiccant system. According to James Hirsch in California, the
energy balance used in the desiccant tabs is not correct and should not be
used, so I am out of luck there.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>If anyone has another
method for modeling a desiccant system, I would love to hear from you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Kathryn Kerns</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Systems Specialist</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-variant:small-caps;
color:teal'>BCE</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-variant:small-caps;
color:teal'> </span><span style='font-variant:small-caps;color:teal'>Engineers,
Inc.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
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<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE<o:p></o:p></p>
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