<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div></div><div>For the most part, I agree with Gary. I believe that you will also find significant savings from part-load performance from the VRV system. VRV systems operate more efficiency at part-load, especially when compares to a chiller. I just finished modeling a VRV system, and with the newest version of eQuest, it is not that difficult. Simply use the PVVT system, and set the compressor to variable speed. You will need a low-speed curve for both heating and cooling. I took those curves from the ResidentialPVVT system. </div><div><br></div><div>I also agree that a COP of 10 seems unreasonable, but I assumed that you meant an EER of 10</div><div><br></div><div>-Eddie<br> </div><div><div style="font-family:arial, helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><br><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> "Gary.Schrader@buildings.schneider-electric.com" <Gary.Schrader@buildings.schneider-electric.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> omar@ecoconsulting.net; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thu, October 14, 2010 11:10:43 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users] VRV Special case: is it worth modeling?<br></font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Omar,</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">The only thing that would save you a
significant amount of energy in my opinion would have been scheduling large VAV
air handling and plant equipment that was originally serving them. I had a
project where I took data closets off of the VAV units and put VRV units in the
closets so that the VAV units no longer had to run 24/7. Scheduling these large
VAV units had a significant savings impact.</span></font></p>
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font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">In your case, it sounds like you may have
something similar but I would need clarification. You said that your closets (that
you want to convert to VRV) are currently FCU. I assume that these FCUs are
served by chilled water. By switching these closets over to VRV, are you able
to now schedule the chiller off? If yes, I would assume that significant
savings would result by not running a chiller (and pumping) 24/7, even with a
high unloading capability and variable-speed pumping. (If you had low unloading
capability and constant pumping, more savings would result)</span></font></p>
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font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">At face value, simply changing the
efficiency of the cooling equipment isn’t enough to evaluate energy
savings. If, however, you can significantly change the schedule of plant
equipment because it is isolated from zones that require 24/7 operation,
savings could be significant and I would certainly recommend a model.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Sidenote: 10 COP seems very, very high for
even the best VRV equipment. I would check that value to ensure accuracy…</span></font></p>
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font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Best luck,</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Gary</span></font><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"></span></font></p>
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<p><b><font size="1" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;">Gary Schrader</span></font></b><font size="1" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> | </span></font><b><font size="1" color="green" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:green;font-weight:bold;">Schneider
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;">
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b><span style="
font-weight:bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Omar Katanani<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, October 14, 2010
5:41 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b>
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Equest-users] VRV
Special case: is it worth modeling?</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Dear all,</span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">My school has some 200
zones including classrooms, storage rooms, offices...</span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">The HVAC system is a VAV
one, with FCU for 17 offices/storage rooms.</span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">In the new updated design,
4 of these FCUs were replaced with a VRV system. I am about to model that:</span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Do you think that these 4
small zones (electrical room (x 2), UPS room, telephone room) will
significantly change the Space Cooling results (not that no heating is required)?
I mean, these zones had FCUs and were conditioned. All that changed is that a
VRV (COP=10) replaced the chiller (COP=5.4) for only 4 zones!</span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">I would like to avoid the
complexity of modeling VRVs if possible!</span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;"> </span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Many thanks,</span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Omar</span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">___________________________</span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;">Omar Katanani<br>
Sustainable
Design Engineer</span></font><span lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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