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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Some additional thoughts…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If you always have zero heating no matter what, then just as Carol
said it’s likely a missing or incorrect thermostat schedule for one or
more systems. A coincident symptom of missing thermostats would be having 0
unmet heating hours while simultaneously having zero heating energy consumption
when you know you should have some heating loads. You can’t have an
unmet hour in a zone without a thermostat to define it first.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>More than once I’ve taken a first look at the visual
consumption/cost reports, and too quickly drew the wrong conclusion also…
If the heating cost/consumption bars are tiny in magnitude, is it because the others
are astronomical? Entering a utility rate with the decimal one figure off will
do that very sneakily =).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The layers method of defining constructions is pretty much
something I personally always do, even when I have limited information. The
U-Value method of defining constructions, if I’m not mistaken, is
intended only for lightweight constructions with effectively zero heat
retention / thermal mass (i.e. a metal shed). If you tried to model any
masonry or wood-framed wall using the U-value method, I’d expect a pretty
inaccurate simulation because you won’t be modeling the realistic “buffer”
over time for external envelope loads. With regard to what layers to use for 90.1
baselines, import the attached reference file for all above-ground wall and
roof constructions for all climate zones (get to detailed mode </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>ŕ</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> file
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>ŕ</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>
input file… </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:#1F497D'>ŕ</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> navigate to this .inp file). Kudos and Credits for the
original file to Adam Boyd by the way. Open the file with a text editor (notepad)
to learn in detail where the layers were derived from. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Alternatively if you’re using eQuest 3.64, you could
dabble with the LEED compliance tool to have it generate layered constructions
similar to the attached. I’ve not looked hard to verify the accuracy but
I found good numbers were generated for a single project/climate zone.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It’s probably worth noting that Monterrey Mexico on a
cursory google search doesn’t appear to drop below freezing temperatures
much. If you have a building with significant internal heat loads and good
insulation it may be perfectly normal to have heating consumptions of a low
magnitude, as your occupants/lights/equipment are ‘self-heating.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>~Nick <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB69F1.491440D0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, E.I.T.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#CC9900'>PROJECT ENGINEER</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913 344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#2D4D5E'>Check out our new web-site @ </span></i><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a
href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol
Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Toothaker<br>
<b>Cc:</b> eQUEST Users List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] No Space Heating & U-values showing
oppositeresults<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>See embedded comments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Chris Toothaker <<a
href="mailto:crtooth2000@yahoo.com">crtooth2000@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hello eQuest users;<br>
<br>
I have 3 questions that are all related to each other. I am fairly new to
energy<br>
modeling, so please help me resolve these issues that I have been struggling<br>
with for quite some time now:<br>
<br>
Our project is a 17-story residential condo building in Monterrey,
Mexico. The<br>
HVAC system for each of the living units consists of a mini-split heat pump<br>
system with 3 zones sharing an exterior condenser.<br>
<br>
<br>
1) I don’t think I am specifying the proper HVAC system type:<br>
<br>
In Wizard mode under the HVAC system definition, if I select the system type to<br>
‘Split System Single-Zone Heat Pump (residential)’, system per
zone, and cooling<br>
& heating sources both as ‘DX coils’ with heat pump source
‘Air’ – in DDedit<br>
mode, the HVAC system defaults to a PVVT system. Is this really the same thing?<br>
Similarly, when I model the baseline building as a ‘Packaged Terminal
Heat Pump’<br>
in Wizard mode, the HVAC system defaults to a PTAC system in DDedit mode, which<br>
according to ASHRAE 90.1 is a completely different (an incorrect) system type.<br>
When I attempt to change either of these types manually in DDedit mode, none of<br>
the desired systems are available in pull-down options. How then can I<br>
appropriately set the correct HVAC system types?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<b>These systems are correct. You will notice that they will both default to
heat pump rather than dx w/ electric cooling. The PVVT & PTAC just refer to
the type of air delivery system not the heat/cool source.</b> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
2) There is no Space Heating occurring in my simulation:<br>
<br>
Every time I run a simulation, no matter how many options I seem to vary, no<br>
Space Heating occurs for any of the HVAC system zones. I have input the<br>
manufacturers specified heating & cooling capacities for each zone and have
even<br>
tried varying the HVAC system types and capacities, but I simply cannot get any<br>
heating to occur. Allowing eQuest to autosize the capacities yields slightly<br>
more success, but if I know the actual capacities, shouldn’t I model them
as<br>
such? However, I can get different results if I vary the inputs related to my<br>
last question:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<b>Check your thermostat schedule, if you have one. If you don't you need one.</b>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal> <br>
3) Lower input U-values indicate more energy use while higher input U-values<br>
indicate less energy use. This same result consistently keeps happening for<br>
windows, walls, anything. Shouldn’t the exact opposite result occur? In
regards<br>
to question 2, if I input a ridiculously high U-value for the exterior walls,<br>
say 13.7 (the R value equivalent of the actual 0.073 U value), I finally get<br>
some Space Heating results...<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<b>It depends on if your building load is internally dominated or skin
dominated and if you are in a heating dominated or cooling dominated building.
There was a very good discussion about just this subject within the last few
weeks. Search the archive.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal> <br>
In DDedit mode, under the ‘Constructions’ component, I have set up
inputs for<br>
the building’s U Values using the ‘Layers input’ as the
Specification Method;<br>
and for the layers/materials I basically just set up 1 layer that corresponds
to<br>
the entire assembly thickness and total U-value. I originally set up the<br>
proposed design with several different layers, but I later changed it so that
it<br>
could more closely relate to the baseline input because I was not sure how to<br>
set up the baseline assembly layers only knowing the required minimum R Value
as<br>
per ASHRAE 90.1. Honestly I get the same result whether I use the U-value input<br>
or Layers input, but I assumed the Layers Input would be more accurate as it<br>
accounts for wall thickness.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<b>You shouldn't/can't use layers if you only have the R-value. You should use
the U-value input in this case.</b> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <br>
I sincerely thank you in advance for any help that anyone can provide. I am not<br>
an engineer, so I greatly appreciate any advice that I can get. Attached are
the<br>
.inp, .pd2, and weather.bin files.<br>
<br>
<br>
Chris Toothaker<br>
Assoc. AIA<br>
<br>
SIMBIOSIS<br>
P.O. Box 132155<br>
Dallas TX 75313<br>
<a href="http://www.simbiosislab.com" target="_blank">www.simbiosislab.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE<o:p></o:p></p>
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