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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Daniel,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">To answer your question directly, there is no baseline efficiency for that type of package (Just like Kelsey said). If you’re doing this for energy modeling purposes (comparing a baseline case vs. a proposed
case), none of the ASHRAE baseline cases (Systems 1 through 8 from Appx G) require water source heat pumps, and that’s why you don’t find any required efficiencies. Based on the type of system you’re describing (70 ton multistack), I’d think your baseline
system would be a System 5 or 7. We have some curves in Trace built up for larger capacity heat pump chiller, so if you want the efficiencies we have for those, let me know and I’ll tell you.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Kelsey,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The problem with using the minimum efficiencies for water chilling packages is that the heat pumps are not nearly as efficient in cooling only as a typical centrifugal chiller…where they really excel is the combined
mode when they produce chilled and hot water simultaneously…usually the COP you find manufacturers advertising is the sum of the cooling COP plus the heating COP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hope this helps,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Jeff Seger </span>
</b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#4A9054;letter-spacing:1.2pt">EIT</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#006086"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">M.E. GROUP </span>
</b><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:black">/</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
color:black">
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";
color:#006086;letter-spacing:1.2pt">design</span></b><b><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;
letter-spacing:-1.4pt">
</span></i></b><b><span style="font-size:6.5pt;
font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:black;letter-spacing:-1.4pt">+</span></b><b><i><span style="font-size:6.5pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;
letter-spacing:1.2pt">
</span></i></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#4A9054;letter-spacing:1.2pt">green</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">t: 816.531.2121 x3123<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.megroup.com/"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="175" height="54" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CB6150.AB3ED210" alt="LOGO_COMBINEDb"></span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Kelsey VanTassel [mailto:KVanTassel@sustaineng.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 01, 2010 9:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniel Deese; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Water Source Heat Pump Efficiencies<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">No, you are right, there is nothing listed in the tables for water-source heat pump greater than 135,000 Btu/h. I think that’s when you go to the water-chilling packages table and start looking at the minimum
efficiencies for water-cooled chillers. That wouldn’t cover the heating mode, though. Maybe someone else knows for sure.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black">Kelsey Van Tassel</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#000066"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black">Mechanical Engineer |
<a href="mailto:kvantassel@sustaineng.com">kvantassel@sustaineng.com</a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#000066"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
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color:#000066"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Daniel Deese<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 01, 2010 8:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Water Source Heat Pump Efficiencies<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif"">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif""> I know they always say there’s no such thing as a stupid question, but I’ve been looking through ASHRAE 90.1 table 6.8.1 as well as I know how, and I cannot find
the required efficiency rating for a water source heat pump with a capacity greater than 135,000 BTU/hr. We’re trying to model Multistack heat pump/chillers, and we’re using the 70-ton model, which correlates to about 840,000 BTU/hr.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif""> Has anyone ever modeled a water source heat pump larger than 135 MBH, and if so, which efficiency did you use? I know I’m absolutely horrible at where’s waldo, so
there’s a good chance I’ve just overlooked it. Any help or advice is as always appreciated. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif"">daniel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">Daniel I. Deese, EI</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">| </span><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><ns0:PersonName>CRB</ns0:PersonName>
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