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The best way to "understand what is going on" is to examine the
INP files to find how the system is defined. That will help you to
understand how the simulation engine works. equest is a front end
to DOE2.2. It is a good idea to become familiar with the DOE2.2
keywords and how they effect the model.<br><br>
At 04:35 PM 29/09/2010, Eddie Corwin wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I will continue on with you
suggestions. I is just hard for me to get past the idea that when
all of the HVAC systems are auto-sized, I still have many unmet
hours. If it were just a few unmet hours, I would be ok with it,
but this system has more than a few unmet hours.<br><br>
The problem seems to be in the "WL/GS Ht Pump" input.
There is no DOE2 help on the topic, so it is hard to know exactly what is
going on, but when it is set to "NO" The HP runs in heating
mode for ~1600 hours (with many unmet hours). When the option is
set to "YES" the heat pump runs for 3218 hours in heating mode
(with very few unmet hours). It seems that this option determines
weather or not the heat pump is able to operate at low outdoor
temperatures, or something along those lines. With the option set
to "YES" I am still able to have an air-cooled condenser, and I
still have curves that relate the EIR and capacity to the OA
temperature. If you want to try this out, I have attached the
latest model.<br><br>
Again, thank you for your suggestions, I always find it very helpful to
have a 3rd party's comments<br><br>
-Eddie<br><br>
<br>
<font face="Tahoma" size=2><b>From:</b> "Bishop, Bill"
<wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com><br>
<b>To:</b> Eddie Corwin <ecorwin@altanova-energy.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wed, September 29, 2010 3:56:31 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] No Heating from PVVT Heat Pump<br>
</font><br>
<font size=2 color="#000080">Eddie,<br>
</font><br>
<font size=2 color="#000080">You can see with your attached model that at
least you are getting heating and the system is operating. To get rid of
your unmet hours, you will have to refine the model. First put the
accurate loads and envelope in (including getting rid of the exterior
floor I mentioned previously) and make sure your schedules (lighting,
equipment, occupancy etc.) are reasonable. Then change some interior
walls to air walls as applicable (interior walls that aren’t actually
there, such as corridors that open into a space without a door) to more
evenly distribute loads within each floor. Finally, add system capacities
and zonal air flows. Perimeter baseboard heating may be needed in the
design if the windows and walls are as poor as your previous attached
model suggests. You might also create a custom capacity curve
(HEAT-CAP-FT) for the Mitsubishi heat pump.<br>
</font><br>
<font size=2 color="#000080">Regards,<br>
</font><br>
<font size=2 color="#000080">Bill<br>
</font><br>
<font size=2 color="#000080"> <br>
</font><br>
<font size=2><b>William Bishop , PE, BEMP, LEED<sup>®</sup> AP
</font><font size=2 color="#006600">|</font><font size=2> Pathfinder
Engineers & Architects LLP<br>
</b></font><br>
<font size=1>Mechanical Engineer<br>
</font><br>
<font size=1> <br>
</font><br>
<font size=1 color="#000080">134 South Fitzhugh Street<br>
Rochester, NY 14608<br>
T: (585) 325-6004 </font><font size=1>Ext.
114</font><font size=1 color="#000080"><br>
F: (585) 325-6005<br>
</font><br>
<font size=1>wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com<br>
</font><br>
<font size=1><a href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com">
www.pathfinder-ea.com</a><br>
</font><br>
<font face="Webdings" size=5 color="#008000">P</font>
<font color="#008000">
</font><font size=1 color="#008000">Sustainability the forest AND the
trees.</font><font face="Webdings" size=5 color="#008000"> P<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#000080"> <br>
<hr>
<div align="center"></font></div>
<font face="Tahoma" size=2 color="#008000"><b>From:</b>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Eddie Corwin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] No Heating from PVVT Heat Pump<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font face="Times New Roman, Times" color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000">Bill and Kelly, thank you for your
input.<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000">Bill:<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000">I have tried using the wizard to
create the PVVT heat pump. I even used "system per zone"
so that each zone is controlled independently. Even coming strait
out of the wizard, there are plenty of heating hours not met. I
understand that a stand air-to-air heat pump will be unable to operate in
very cold weather, but that is where the supplemental heat should take
over to get rid of any unmet hours. I have attached this
model.<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000">The actual system I am trying to
model is the Mitsubishi Hyper Heating Inverter Y-Series Heat
Pump. This system (in heating mode) uses electric
resistance heat to warm the outdoor air before it reaches the outdoor
coils. This ensures that heat transfer will occur between the OA
and the outdoor coil, and allows for operation at temperatures as low as
-13*F. At first I thought that eQuest can not exactly model a
system like this, so maybe eQuest is not allowing any heat transfer
between the cold coil and the cold air. But then I tried again
using the RESVVT, and it seems to work well, even in the middle of
winter. My only objection to using the RESVVT is that I would like
to have control over the OA.<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000">Kelly:<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000">You say that I can not use PVVT with
an air cooled compressor, but it says that it is possible in the DOE2
help file, also, the wizard will set it up that way. Normally I
would just use the PSZ or even PTAC to model an air-to-air heat pump, but
I would like to use the variable speed compressor, so I need to use a VVT
system.<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000">Has anyone modeled an air-to-air HP
system that operates at such low temperatures before?<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000">Thanks,<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000">-Eddie<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
<div align="center"><br>
</font></div>
<font face="Tahoma" size=2 color="#008000"><b>From:</b> Dakota Kelley
<dakotak@teliospc.com><br>
<b>To:</b> Eddie Corwin <ecorwin@altanova-energy.com>;
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wed, September 29, 2010 12:56:13 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] No Heating from PVVT Heat Pump<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#1F497D">Water-cooled heat pumps, ground loop
or not, are considered system type PVVT. Air-cooled heat pumps are
considered type PSZ. Try changing your system type to PSZ and your
heating source to “heat pump”. <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#1F497D"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#1F497D">You can also create a temporary
project and set up an air-source heat pump in the wizard, then go inspect
the system type/settings in the detailed interface to see how eQUEST
interprets your inputs.<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#1F497D"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#1F497D">Thanks,<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font>
<img src="cid:7.1.0.9.2.20100930092441.0bc6e4f8@enersave.ca.1" width=82 height=94 alt>
<font size=2>
<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2><b>DAKOTA KELLEY <br>
</b></font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2>Project Designer | Energy Analyst<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2>
<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2>
</font><font size=1>Office:
214.744.6199
<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=1>
Cell: 214.280.3825<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=1>
Fax: 214.744.0770</font><font size=2> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=1><a href="http://www.teliospc.com/">
http://www.teliospc.com/</a>
3535 Travis St. Suite
115<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=1><a href="mailto:dakotak@teliospc.com">
dakotak@teliospc.com</a></font><font size=2>
</font><font size=1>Dallas, TX
75204</font><font size=2>
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</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"><b>From:</b> Eddie Corwin
[<a href="mailto:ecorwin@altanova-energy.com" eudora="autourl">
mailto:ecorwin@altanova-energy.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] No Heating from PVVT Heat Pump<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font face="Times New Roman, Times" color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000">So I determined why I was not getting
any heating, and the resolutions perplexes me.<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> I am modeling an Air-to-Air
heat pump, so in the air-side system --> Basics tab I selected
"NO" for the field "WL/GS Ht Pump". In doing
so, I get no heating out of the system. When I change the field to
"YES" I now get heating. Attached are two images
showing the field i am referring to, and showing that I have an
air-cooled condenser. Does anyone know why this might be
happening. I am worried that eQuest is treating my HP like a ground
or water source HP instead of an air-to-air system. Any thoughts on
the matter would be appreciated. By the way, I am using eQuest
3.64<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000">-Eddie<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2 color="#008000"> <br>
<div align="center"><br>
</div>
<b>From:</b> Eddie Corwin <ecorwin@altanova-energy.com><br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tue, September 28, 2010 5:17:21 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] No Heating from PVVT Heat Pump<br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br>
</font><font size=2>I am trying to model a PVVT system, that uses an
air-cooled heat pump for heating and cooling. For some reason, the
system refuses to supply any heating. When I change the condenser
type from air-cooled to water-cooled, the system WILL provide heat.
Has anyone experienced problems like this, or has someone successful
modeled a PVVT air-cooled heat pump? I have attached my IDF and PD2
file for review. <br>
</font><font size=1 color="#008000"><br><br>
<br><br>
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Fax. 416-946-1005<br><br>
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