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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I imagine they are asking you because you did not report it
and/or the reviewer perceives you are claiming savings, perhaps due to instantaneous
water heaters.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>ASHRAE 90.1 regulates standby losses in water heating equipment (Table
7.8 in 90.1-2007). In some fossil fuel equipment it is a separate number, in
electric equipment and other fossil fuel equipment it is captured within EF. The
new EAp2 section 1.4 workbook asks for efficiencies referenced to ASHRAE 90.1
tables. I suggest you do that regardless of your project's LEED version.
Bill's suggestion below may lead you to document a standby loss that is
different than the regulated value and significant review headaches. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If your equipment meets the required performance and you are not
claiming standby loss savings, I really doubt they will highly scrutinize how
you manage the translation between SL & EF ratings into DOE-2 inputs. If
you are claiming standby loss savings, I would expect more scrutiny and sharpen
your pencil accordingly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Good luck,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#5F574F'>Paul Riemer, PE, LEED AP</span></b><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#5F574F'>Associate / Mechanical</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#5F574F'>Direct: 612-465-7696</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#5F574F'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#C4262E'>DUNHAM</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
color:#5F574F'><br>
Celebrating 50 Years of Service</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#5F574F'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bishop,
Bill<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 27, 2010 10:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> jacob goodman<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] DHW standby loss<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Jacob,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>If you look at your water heater properties in DD Edit mode you
will see the overall heat loss coefficient (UA). If you multiple this by the
temperature difference between the water and space temperature, you get Btu/h.
Adjust the UA, if necessary, to get the needed baseline standby loss (SL) as
calculated in Table 7.8, using 70°F temperature difference. I would keep this
identical in the proposed model unless you know what the actual heater standby
losses are. The modeled SL will vary hourly based on the space temperature of
the DHW zone (which you select in the DHW Basic Specifications tab).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond","serif";
color:black'>William Bishop, PE, BEMP, LEED<sup>®</sup> AP </span></b><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond","serif";
color:#006600'>|</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium Cond","serif";
color:black'> Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>Mechanical Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>134 South Fitzhugh Street</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:navy'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Rochester, NY 14608</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>T: (585) 325-6004 </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Ext. 114</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:navy'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>F: (585) 325-6005</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>www.pathfinder-ea.com</span><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;
color:green'>P</span><span style='color:green'> </span><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;color:green'>Sustainability – less is more.</span><span
style='color:green'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol
Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 27, 2010 10:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> jacob goodman<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] DHW standby loss</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Seriously? They asked you about standby loss? Where is your
gas storage water heater located? If it's inside a conditioned space tell them
you didn't worry about it. Also, if it's wrapped with insulation, or even just
has insulation in the jacket, tell them it was negligible and you didn't worry
about it. They mustn't have much to do at GBIC!<br>
<br>
Carol<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 6:42 AM, jacob goodman <<a
href="mailto:jacobg@lseng.com">jacobg@lseng.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>I'm working on a review response for LEED and a question came
up about how I calculated Standby Loss for the Gas storage water heater in my
baseline building. For the model I left the default %/hr in the wizard screen.
My question is what is this a % of and is there some way I could convert this
into Btu/h to compare to the number calculated from ASHRAE 90.1 2004 Table 7.8
for the ANSI Z21.10.3 test procedure. <br>
<br>
Thank you all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><br>
<b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Jacob
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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margin-left:.5in'><br>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
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<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE<o:p></o:p></p>
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