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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I retract my comment on Bill's approach and I apologize to Bill.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I will read and write slower next time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul
Riemer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 27, 2010 11:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Bishop, Bill'; jacob goodman<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] DHW standby loss<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>I imagine they are asking you because you did not report it
and/or the reviewer perceives you are claiming savings, perhaps due to
instantaneous water heaters.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>ASHRAE 90.1 regulates standby losses in water heating
equipment (Table 7.8 in 90.1-2007). In some fossil fuel equipment it is a
separate number, in electric equipment and other fossil fuel equipment it is
captured within EF. The new EAp2 section 1.4 workbook asks for
efficiencies referenced to ASHRAE 90.1 tables. I suggest you do that
regardless of your project's LEED version. Bill's suggestion below may
lead you to document a standby loss that is different than the regulated value
and significant review headaches. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>If your equipment meets the required performance and you are
not claiming standby loss savings, I really doubt they will highly scrutinize
how you manage the translation between SL & EF ratings into DOE-2 inputs.
If you are claiming standby loss savings, I would expect more scrutiny and
sharpen your pencil accordingly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Good luck,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b>Paul Riemer, PE, LEED AP</b> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Associate / Mechanical<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Direct: 612-465-7696<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b>DUNHAM</b><br>
Celebrating 50 Years of Service<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b>From:</b> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bishop,
Bill<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 27, 2010 10:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> jacob goodman<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] DHW standby loss<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Jacob,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>If you look at your water heater properties in DD Edit mode
you will see the overall heat loss coefficient (UA). If you multiple this by
the temperature difference between the water and space temperature, you get
Btu/h. Adjust the UA, if necessary, to get the needed baseline standby loss
(SL) as calculated in Table 7.8, using 70°F temperature difference. I would
keep this identical in the proposed model unless you know what the actual
heater standby losses are. The modeled SL will vary hourly based on the space
temperature of the DHW zone (which you select in the DHW Basic Specifications
tab).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b>William Bishop, PE, BEMP, LEED<sup>®</sup> AP | Pathfinder
Engineers & Architects LLP<o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Mechanical Engineer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>134 South Fitzhugh Street<br>
Rochester, NY 14608<br>
T: (585) 325-6004 Ext. 114<br>
F: (585) 325-6005<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>www.pathfinder-ea.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>P Sustainability – less is more.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><b>From:</b> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carol
Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 27, 2010 10:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> jacob goodman<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] DHW standby loss<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Seriously? They asked you about standby loss? Where is your gas
storage water heater located? If it's inside a conditioned space tell them you
didn't worry about it. Also, if it's wrapped with insulation, or even just has
insulation in the jacket, tell them it was negligible and you didn't worry
about it. They mustn't have much to do at GBIC!<br>
<br>
Carol<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 6:42 AM, jacob goodman <<a
href="mailto:jacobg@lseng.com">jacobg@lseng.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>I'm working on a review response for LEED and a question came
up about how I calculated Standby Loss for the Gas storage water heater in my
baseline building. For the model I left the default %/hr in the wizard screen.
My question is what is this a % of and is there some way I could convert this
into Btu/h to compare to the number calculated from ASHRAE 90.1 2004 Table 7.8
for the ANSI Z21.10.3 test procedure. <br>
<br>
Thank you all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><br>
<b>Jacob </b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><br>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Carol Gardner PE<o:p></o:p></p>
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